The New Rules of Sports Streaming: Keith Bedford, GM of EMEA for Wurl

:: 01:35

Keith, you've got a pretty extensive background in TV and media. So I'm wondering, with all that experience, what first drew your attention to Whirl? And what was so compelling at it that you decided to join them in what they're trying to do?

:: 01:53

Yeah, no, good afternoon. And I think I've been in the broadcast industry for a long time and I've worked in traditional broadcasts for a lot of the major companies supplying services. And I sort of see the shift about eight years ago from traditional linear broadcasting to streaming and connected TV. I was lucky enough that I had a business that I sold into the press association. And from there, I started looking at sort of different consultancy roles. which led me into the sort of ctv and the ad funded marketplace and you know i'd done some pictures to world i've done some pictures to other ctv companies as well and lucky enough world offered me a position it was a sort of no -brainer really you know looking at where the market's going looking at where the change of pace is going especially around viewership and you know direct to consumer and it was an opportunity i couldn't turn down was there something uniquely i mean it's lovely to have that sort of

:: 02:47

there something uniquely i mean it's lovely to have that sort of perspective as you're going through and taking a look and talking to and doing like you said pitches to the different companies was there something in particular about world that made you think oh gosh these guys they've got it more figured out than somebody else or you know was it just a moment of opportunity for you well i think it's a bit of both actually i think you know i could see the major players that are in this streaming marketplace and and i've spoken to all of them in fairness i think what i got from world was

:: 03:07

i think it's a bit of both actually i think you know i could see the major players that are in this streaming marketplace and and i've spoken to all of them in fairness i think what i got from world was you know the prospect of really driving our products forward and and i could see that you know we're really a tech focused business and i think the opportunity to grow the product portfolio was there i think they had sort of foundations of you know the channel business and but i could see a lot of their focus go towards advertising and and at the time that was after the acquisition from app loving so i could see that there was definitely room for the company to grow and the finances to do it so i think right clearly they have a backer they're going to have to meet deeper pockets to be able to draw from so they were able going to be able to take advantage of this market which i want you to touch on just a moment if you could right can you give a sense of scale to the streaming market today yeah and what growth is going to be looking like what should we anticipate as growth i think everybody talks about subscriber numbers and you know running around with their hands over their head like i do and

:: 03:45

right clearly they have a backer they're going to have to meet deeper pockets to be able to draw from so they were able going to be able to take advantage of this market which i want you to touch on just a moment if you could right can you give a sense of scale to the streaming market today yeah and what growth is going to be looking like what should we anticipate as growth i think everybody talks about subscriber numbers and you know running around with their hands over their head like i do and but like somebody's inside the circle there's a there's a lot of you know data out there and i think the one that i'm looking at is you know the ad revenue because ultimately you know it's an ad supported platform both you know the over the top products the direct to consumer plus streaming everything's got to run from advertising so so i'm looking at where the ad model is and you know when i joined the business it was about 18 billion dollars worth of ad going through ctv marketplace and

:: 04:11

somebody's inside the circle there's a there's a lot of you know data out there and i think the one that i'm looking at is you know the ad revenue because ultimately you know it's an ad supported platform both you know the over the top products the direct to consumer plus streaming everything's got to run from advertising so so i'm looking at where the ad model is and you know when i joined the business it was about 18 billion dollars worth of ad going through ctv marketplace and I think when we finished last year, it was at $29 million, billion dollars, not billion, sorry, not million. Yeah, that's a different number there.

:: 04:46

that's a different number there. I'm not a math guy.

:: 04:48

I'm not a math guy. And I think it's looking at being $42 billion by 2020.

:: 04:53

at being $42 billion by 2020. Pretty soon you're going to start talking about real numbers there.

:: 04:56

Pretty soon you're going to start talking about real numbers there. Exactly. And we are seeing the growth in subscriber numbers. That's definitely happening. And I think if I look at, I think I'm in a lucky position. I'm working in Europe, but I work with World, who, you know, do a massive job in the U .S., and the change of speed in the U .S. for streaming television has grown quicker than Europe. And there's a lot of things around, you know, cord cutting. You've gone through a lot of that in the U .S. You know, we're sort of really probably, I would say, three or four years behind that.

:: 05:26

Everybody's running around with scissors over their heads getting ready to start the revolution. Exactly, and I have the benefit of,

:: 05:29

start the revolution. Exactly, and I have the benefit of, you know, seeing what's happening in the U .S. And it will progress to the rest of the world. That's always going to happen. A lot of the content that we get, a lot of the major sports content we get is all from the US. We've got our own, obviously, leagues and everything, which I can see growth. But it's good for me. I can see what's happening in the US, and I can help try and predict what's going to happen in Europe.

:: 05:52

So we've already had a couple of pieces of terminology that are very specific to streaming and broadcast. delivering video products to the masses. So before we go too much deeper, because I know there's a couple of people who are listening going, CTV and everything like that, what are we talking about here? So can you, let's also get, before we get too much deeper into this, dive into some of the acronyms and terminologies that you deal with on a regular basis, but someone on the outside looking in may want to help get some deeper understanding of, right? Because we've talked OTA. CTV, I know fast is certainly something we need to dive into. Can you touch upon each one of those and anything else that we should be thinking of as this conversation unfolds?

:: 06:38

Yeah, yeah, sure. I think from OTA, I see that as over the air and I sort of think of that as the more traditional method of receiving broadcasts, you know, whether that's over satellite or, you know, I call it DTH in the UK,

:: 06:43

sort of

:: 06:50

know, I call it DTH in the UK, direct to home, and that's good old aerial, which is now digital. So I see that as traditional linear. And I think for that you know and there's lots of arguments about oh but surely you know ad supported channels have been here forever and they have the difference is with streaming is that we can see how many streams are actually connected it's a measurement issue isn't it exactly when we're over the air you know we we can we don't really know how many people are connected to the satellite and we don't know how many people are actually streaming it illegally from a satellite either so there's lots of things there

:: 07:12

a measurement

:: 07:14

when we're over the air you know we we can we don't really know how many people are connected to the satellite and we don't know how many people are actually streaming it illegally from a satellite either so there's lots of things there

:: 07:23

there's lots

:: 07:26

I'm looking away from the camera right now.

:: 07:26

I'm looking away from the camera right now. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to get into that. That's not my area.

:: 07:28

exactly. I don't want to get into that. That's not my area. But, you know, over the air, I see that as really traditional, because we plug a TV in, we plug an aerial in, or a satellite, and we watch it. OTT is sort of, I think, where, and they call that over the top. And that's where you're then plugging in a different connected device. You know, it could have been in the early day, a stick. It could have been. getting a you know a connected streaming device in that sort of changed the dial i suppose and that's where you know everything started to change and over the top sides changed everything and now all of a sudden when we talk about connected television it's really how we're receiving our tv and that's you know over an internet connect so and that's how i really see it simplicity is you know we use an area on a satellite we got you know traditional linear broadcasting we connect into a stream i'll call that connected tv and i think there's lots of terms i think you know fast is the next one and you know there's still people talking about what is a fast channel well it's you know free ad supported streaming television and that means that the ads that are going into that stream are delivered in a completely different way to traditional linear you know where they're off cut to a different ad server and you get the ad load coming in This is the digital way. This is the new way. It's through real -time bidding. It's the same as how Google and Meta sell their ads. So we're in a whole different world. So when I get asked the difference, I always say, well, it's about how the ads are delivered, really. And when they're delivered over a stream, it's a completely different way. There's more data we can pick up. We know how many ads have been delivered. We know how many ads have been streamed. We know potentially where they're going. know what devices are watching them so it gives everybody so much more data is that data being used properly well there's a whole nother that's a different podcast keith we got to spend time on that but you see how compelling this can be for marketers right because you and i can be watching the same thing in a traditional environment we're both seeing the same ad

:: 09:28

a different podcast keith we got to spend time on that but you see how compelling this can be for marketers right because you and i can be watching the same thing in a traditional environment we're

:: 09:28

podcast keith

:: 09:40

both seeing the same ad But in this environment, you and I could be watching the same thing. And because of the profiles that have been developed online that represent you and I, we can see a completely different ad platforms and different messages associated with that. So just tailoring it to our particular interests.

:: 09:55

tailoring it to our particular interests. And there goes the potential for streaming. It's about targeting. It's about targeting the right audience, serving ads that. And everybody wants the return on ad spend. I mean, back in the day. when we had five channels it was pretty easy to put some adverts out there for branding and you know how many people the potential reach was but you could see because of the amount of channels where you were competing against and as you know your ads were doing well now we're talking about thousands of channels and you know and there's a whole different podcast on discoverability but you know we're gonna touch on that a little yeah we should do it and i think where

:: 10:32

know we're gonna touch on that a little yeah we should do it and i

:: 10:34

we should do it and i think where where the difference is you know if i look at what's happening in mobile the attribution for serving an ad and seeing that last click into an e -commerce site is there you know so that's already available in tv obviously opens a whole new different set of problems around how do we actually know what device has been shown on and where that connection has been made to to deliver that final click and that person's bought that product so it's shortening that distance between basically what had been a traditional advertising environment online and now one that exists in a video environment and for those people who heard this conversation when keith said when there was five channels yes there there was such a time and you had to you had to schedule your tv time with your family members to make sure you got to have it at the time of the program that you wanted to have

:: 11:03

shortening that distance between basically what had been a traditional advertising environment online and now one that exists in a video environment and for those people who heard this conversation when keith said when there was five channels yes there there was such a time and you had to you had to schedule your tv time with your family members to make sure you got to have it at the time of the program that you wanted to have and it had to be live everything was live exactly and unfortunately i'm that old that there was no mobiles around at the time as well so we didn't even have a phone to distract us really are going to be shocking people on this podcast with this sort of dive into history and i think that actually brings up an important point we talked about just mentioned talking watching live and is the role of sports in

:: 11:21

you had

:: 11:29

it had to be live everything was live exactly and unfortunately i'm that old that there was no mobiles around at the time as well so we didn't even have a phone to distract us really

:: 11:36

didn't even have a phone to distract us really are going to be shocking people on this podcast with this sort of dive into history and i think that actually brings up an important point we talked about just mentioned talking watching live and is the role of sports in the growth of streaming and the trajectory of the ad buying and what that means to marketers trying to reach those audiences. So can you touch on for a moment the idea and concept of sport and how that weaves into world's growth plans as you consider them?

:: 12:10

Yeah, I mean, sport's so, you know, essential for broadcasters. I mean, if I sort of roll back time, you know, all of the major rights deals, all of the major platforms that showed sports is where all the subscriber numbers were and still are but people are finding different ways to to find content and i think that's really what we're looking at here is you know i can look at you know certain of the big brands they're all looking at a direct to consumer marketing strategy which you know was really non -existent you know 10 years ago even so they're definitely looking at how can we find our views and it's got to be multi -platform So it's not just streaming. It's obviously Instagram. It's Facebook. It's all of the other outlets of social media platforms. And it has to be a combined effort. And if I look at, you know, World Rugby is somebody that we work with. We've launched a channel with them. They are looking. They started with an OTT app, which is, you know, an online web page where you can go and view video, which we all know. And that started to go well. And, you know, what is the next strategy for them? they're not going to launch a satellite channel but they have got an opportunity to launch streaming television channel which you know which now can reach a whole new audience and someone like them they're looking at where the future lies you know rugby is fairly big in the us bigger than i thought i think there was and growing and growing and the you know the women's world cup is going to be in the us so i think there's a you know a strong strategy to say how can we target the us and streaming is a perfect opportunity for that so you know they're on samsung to start with which is great and and they're just going to try and grow their reach but it's a multi -platform approach so you know and it's that direct to consumer model really which i think where streaming is going to be going back to the audience targeting that's certainly something that everybody's going to be looking at but i see that's where the growth is so as you approach rights holders like the world rugby and others like that what are those

:: 14:05

is so as you approach rights holders like the world rugby and others like that what are those conversations like what kind of questions do they have for you about how they apply this technology effectively and what does that start to look like when you engage them on behalf of oral yeah no that's a great question what we did at well is that we we started attending uh some events and you know sporto in monaco's great event it's a very small event and we were talking to these broadcast but it's sorry these rights holders

:: 14:24

no that's a great question what we did at well is that we we started attending uh some events and you know sporto in monaco's great event it's a very small event and we were talking to these broadcast but it's sorry these rights holders uh you know nearly three or four or five years ago and that streaming strategy is really just coming to fruition now and i think if i if i wear my european hat obviously for us you know we want to try and make sure we're hitting the us market because that's currently where the dollars are that's where the ad revenue is and that's where you've you know you've got obviously a lot of viewers potential there so for us it the questions were about okay

:: 14:34

event and

:: 15:00

us it the questions were about okay what are the best platforms to go on you know is it roku is it samsung is it lg yeah where should we be where should we be you know what connections do you have and you know world has built the business around building channels and we had a center multi -platform so it's the question about what are the type of potential viewerships we're going to get from these platforms then it's but what's the potential ad revenue what's the reach you know all those things so we did help them all build a business plan and you know with the numbers you know we've got some really good tools here which we can forecast potential revenues based on you know scenarios so you know is it is it soccer is it is it rugby what's the is there any other channels that we can look at that are in the streaming market now right what's the competition you know how are they performing and we we help them build a picture of their potential market reach so i think that was uh that's a good exercise and we try and do that with all of our sports channels

:: 15:30

you know

:: 15:39

know scenarios

:: 16:01

And I think what we've seen over the last couple of years is how can we use that for live? And, you know, I look at how FIFA used that for live when they launched. They had the Women's World Cup on territories that didn't sign the rights. So, you know, for instance, Brazil couldn't do a deal with the broadcaster there on the right. So they streamed it on the Plus channel, which was a first. And the viewership was. fantastic um and the same way people are going to find the shows that they want to watch particularly when we're talking about that kind of level so if the i mean the challenge for the broadcasters in that kind of environment now that that proof has been laid down has to be i'm assuming terrifying yeah i think for i think for broadcasters it's terrifying i actually think for the sports rights holders it's terrifying too because they're all seeing a shift in ad revenue and where those ad dollars are going and

:: 16:29

people are going to find the shows that they want to watch particularly when we're talking about that kind of level so if the i mean the challenge for the broadcasters in that kind of environment now that that proof has been laid down has to be i'm assuming terrifying yeah

:: 16:46

i think for i think for broadcasters it's terrifying i actually think for the sports rights holders it's terrifying too because they're all seeing a shift in ad revenue and where those ad dollars are going and you know at some point you know there will i don't think there's going to be a massive cliff drop moment where everyone goes wow linear revenue's dead and you know now we're all going to watch it on streaming i think it's going to be a natural sort of progression into that but i would say it's a worrying time for rights holders and and i and i see some of the big brands in in the us like the nfl going direct to consumer their consumer strategy has changed and i look at some of the sports brands in europe and i don't think they're looking at that yet and i think there's some big brands and i won't mention them but i think you know they've got they haven't got any subscribers their own they haven't got any ott products they're literally relying on huge revenues coming to the big broadcasters buying up the rice and at some point it will we can see it will start to dip and i think you need a you need a direct consumer strategy on it now i it's such an interesting point right this rights holders have been living on media rights fees as the major source of income it used you know they used to be you know tickets were the engine that drove the train for for sports teams but no longer i mean you know i think an american football team gets a check for 350 million dollars before a single snap is had so

:: 17:51

it's such an interesting point right this rights holders have been living on media rights fees as the major source of income it used you know they used to be you know tickets were the engine that drove the train for

:: 18:00

the major

:: 18:07

for sports teams but no longer i mean you know i think an american football team gets a check for 350 million dollars before a

:: 18:09

longer i mean you know

:: 18:16

single snap is had so Your point being that there are teams and leagues out there who, if there's a little bit of head in the sand about what's coming.

:: 18:29

Yeah, I think there is. A sleep at the wheel I've used a couple of times. Let's keep a sports analogy versus an ostrich analogy then. Yeah, that makes more sense.

:: 18:35

an ostrich analogy then. Yeah, that makes more sense.

:: 18:39

It's definitely something everyone's going to be looking at. And the world has changed. I mean, I can see that in the way my children watch sports. They're not children anymore. They're adults. But, you know, they don't watch sports the way I do. You know, we sit in passively taking a live game. They're watching clips. They're catching up. Sometimes they'll watch a live game, but it might even be on a device. you know it's very rare they sit still for yeah and you know 90 minutes to watch a whole game which which surprises me because you know i would say right okay i'm going to watch man united arsenal i'm going to sit there for 90 minutes and watch it yeah and they're on their devices they get so you know targeting and finding your new viewers is always going to be difficult and you know i think that's what everyone's up against it's a tough one we also so you bring up a really important point too it's like how viewing is changing

:: 19:25

also so you bring up a really important point too it's like how viewing is changing with sports. But that also means that advertising has to change as well. And we've talked a little bit about how it's delivered and what the role that Whirl is playing in making sure that advertisers are getting to the customers that they want. But how does the structure of advertising change as well when you consider viewers' tastes and their attention spans? Is that a challenge that Whirl is assisting with as well? It's about... not only who the audience is but how you're reaching them oh yes yeah definitely and i think there's lots of ways to do that i mean certainly again in the us what we're learning from you know our you know our company there is you can target users and you can target what sports they're watching and see them switch channel so you know and after a time you know content discovery is a product that we've got and you know you can target you know

:: 20:02

yes yeah definitely and i think there's lots of ways to do that i mean certainly again in the us what we're learning from you know our you know our company there is you can target users and you can target what sports they're watching and see them switch channel so you know and after a time you know content discovery is a product that we've got and you know you can target you know a certain you know viewer whether that's in football rugby whatever you keep targeting with ads and see them switch and then you know they've made that switch so there are some products out there and i think we're at the really you know with ai you know we could have another podcast on that keith we just got to start a whole series on this i'm sorry but um that that's going to change you know how that learns you know the gene learning around how we're targeting who's watching it who's switching

:: 20:35

i think we're

:: 20:41

we just got to start a whole series on this i'm sorry but

:: 20:45

um that that's going to change you know how that learns you know the gene learning around how we're targeting who's watching it who's switching you know the streaming numbers on the channel are growing all of those things can be fed into obviously ai to to establish how to market to the end user so i think we're only really at the beginning i think it's you know let's face it you know broadcasters are faced with the biggest competitors are google and meta yeah and you know and amazon too yeah that's it exactly and they are and that's where the ad dollars are going so there's a number of things that have got to happen We've got to make it easy for the brands and the advertising agencies to place their ads very easily to target the right outcomes. And, you know, that is we've got all the data there. Everything will be done. There's more work that needs to be done. But that is where we need to get to, because if you're a brand owner and you want to target specific audiences, that's what you need to do, because that's what you can do on Google and Meta. And that's so you need to be able to do that in TV. And that's where the future, I think, and that's, you know, that was one of the exciting things about joining world is that I can see that there's all the little elements there to get that in place. And it's just a matter of connecting the dots, which is something obviously we're working on. So, and I think that's, you know, that's where the excitement is in that market, but it's also very, very complex because you've got lots of platforms that want to keep their data. No one really wants to share it yet. You know, it's our walled garden. We want all the revenue. So, you know, that, that. will start to change over time i'm sure you know the brand agencies are going to make sure that sort of happens so they can place ads but it doesn't come without problems but i think there's lots of the numbers and and the potential opportunity for getting those numbers are there but it's just about how we work together to make them happen now we're all

:: 22:13

know, it's

:: 22:25

doesn't come without problems but i think there's lots of the numbers and and the potential opportunity for getting those numbers are there but it's just about how we work together to make them happen now

:: 22:36

we're all I had an opportunity recently to work with a major streamer around Wimbledon and Wimbledon coverage. And I'm wondering what lessons were learned when you work on a major global event like that. What worked well? What were some of the challenges? And how do both get addressed and or amplified?

:: 22:56

Yeah, I think, you know, doing live sports, if I go back to my old world of linear broadcasting with outside broadcasting, switching live. you know all of those things were very highly expensive and complicated and so were the channels to run it yeah and if i look now at what we've created with technology and streaming you know those costs have come right down you know us we you know obviously we don't do the live feed that comes from a partner who is filming the event but you know i think the amount of people that we actually need to do this technology is far less than in my old days of an mcr and looking at thousands of screens and switching so you know that technology has opened up the ability to show live very easily and and a relatively low cost so i think that's that scary for us we've done lots of live events in the past but you know when it's on a prestigious platform with wimbledon it sort of it does put the uh you know the ratings up very highly on getting this right so that was see at the stress levels of that was there and also you know just us learning how the workflow goes together and i think you know we've got a team dedicated for scheduling here and they're very good on you know scheduling these programs in earlier what making sure they're working and also creating workflows for fast turnaround which is traditional something we've had to do i say fast as a as a but i mean faster as you know the we also had the highlights every night they had to be encoded and ready for streaming the next day so all of those things that we've been working on we know it's already happening in traditional broadcast so

:: 23:55

that was

:: 24:12

workflows for fast turnaround which is traditional something we've had to do i say fast as a as a but i mean faster as you know the we also had the highlights every night they had to be encoded and ready for streaming the next day so all of those things that we've been working on we know it's already happening in traditional broadcast so been exciting to work on those workflows around you know how we get content quickly to the platform and and i'm seeing that not just from the sort of wimbledon contract but also with with other brands that would say okay we own the rights we can't show it on the day but we want to give it to the consumer on ctv the next day so you know you know you know recording from live feeds creating the audio video and audio files ready for distribution next day is is key products for us and something that has to happen in fast so they got the rights to show those the next day so lots of learning curves there i think that you know it's only going to get better the more we do and you know i think the opportunities there also for live where we don't have the rights to show in certain territories so just going back to my point before about fifa really so it speaks to this idea of you can create a product product so much more efficiently now than you ever could but the demand

:: 25:20

it speaks to this idea of you can create a product product so much more efficiently now than you ever could but the demand for speed to get it out is a constant pressure so there is sort of a do more with less now the technology makes that a bit more capable than it ever has been before but that demand for that content is insatiable you talked about the way that your kids consume content right now mine are mine are the same way it's like i they they want the highlight minutes after if minutes after that it was delivered but it sounds like in your mind like these are all the issues that are currently being adapted for with how the technology is rolling out exactly and i think you know the fact that world is a tech business gives us the opportunity to create some of those products and you know

:: 26:08

and i think you know the fact that world is a tech business gives us the opportunity to create some of those products and you know Most of our employees are engineers, so it puts us in a good position to create technology quickly, which is, you know, and at the moment we're a fairly good agile business, so that gives us the opportunity to move with market, which I think is key. But, you know, again, you know, it is so difficult to know where to target, where to stream, and, you know, us talking about our children completely differently to how we watch it, but we have to adapt with the market. I think it's key. But, you know, And also, we've got to be realistic. I think CTV is a part of the sporting infrastructure. And I talked recently about how everybody has got to have a cross -platform marketing strategy. And, you know, this is one part of it. And it's going to be a big part of it. But you also have to make sure you're promoting that channel on multi -platform. So you've still got to use the traditional social media outlets to do that.

:: 27:11

We talked about discovery. previously and this is sort of a it's an interesting time to be a sports fan watching things on video right because you've never had more access to different forms of content and different games and things like that but it's never been harder to figure out what the hell's going on as far as where your team is going to be right your favorite team might have three games on appearing on three different channels or platforms so how does how does whirl help

:: 27:33

your team is going to

:: 27:39

does how does whirl help solve some of those sort of incipient challenges associated with discovery highly frustrating i agree and uh if i had a crystal i could solve it but it's going to be a tough one but yeah that's because obviously rights is spread across so many different platforms yeah i mean for us if we if we go back to a conversation we had about short clips you know i know that um sky did a project with youtube where they were putting out goal highlights

:: 27:48

frustrating i agree and uh if i had a crystal i could solve it but it's going to be a tough one but yeah that's because obviously rights is spread across so many different platforms yeah i mean for us if we if we go back to a conversation we had about short clips you know i know that um sky did a project with youtube where they were putting out goal highlights And that created reach to their sky channels. And it just shows you that, you know, going off and creating a short form to get to your long form is working. And I think that's definitely something we were looking at, you know, how can short form clips drive you to the channel? So, you know, the potential of, you know, looking at small short form clips, you know, on a reel, for instance, and then taking that to the channel is something we're looking at helping platforms do. So, I mean, you know, I think that's key because, we're all in this short form consumer had it you know youtube shorts and instagram reels everybody sort of you know can easily be addicted to that but what's the outcome the outcome is they stay on platform so you know we're trying to create something where you can use short form clips to target and switch to the mountain channels and that's really about concert to go straight from yeah and i think we all have that problem don't we if we're looking at even what to watch even if we take sports out the agenda

:: 27:50

uh if

:: 28:12

And it

:: 28:32

and then taking

:: 29:01

and i think we all have that problem don't we if we're looking at even what to watch even if we take sports out the agenda You know, how many times we sit there in the evening trying to find something to watch on our devices. The average time is about eight minutes to decide what to watch, which seems absolutely crazy. Yeah. It's because there is so much content. It's a deluge.

:: 29:15

seems absolutely

:: 29:20

Yeah. And it's too much. And you're right. We need to work out how to get to the sports fan and deliver the clips directly. So I think that is definitely a strategy we're looking to work on. Content discovery is key.

:: 29:33

I'm interested in diving a little bit into your experience as someone who's been in business development and sales for a long time. And I'm interested in some of your perspective in the skills that you're relying on today versus maybe how you came up into the industry. Have they changed? Are the fundamentals that got you to this point the same that you're applying now? Like what a success. what are the hallmarks of success for you from a skill standpoint that you continue to rely on well you know personally i don't think they've changed that much i think relationship building is still massively key to driving business forward and if i go back to the statement earlier when you know we visited sportel very important to make sure everyone knows who world is what is the brand

:: 30:03

you know personally i don't think they've changed that much i think relationship building is still massively key to driving business forward and if i go back to the statement earlier when you know we visited sportel very important to make sure everyone knows who world is what is the brand you know what what can we help you with you know what what needs have you got to launch a streaming channel understanding where the market is i mean you know if i go back three or four years ago there was resistance to going to streaming but now that's coming obviously we rely on a great marketing team you know to help us make sure we're promoting all the channels but i do feel one -to -one you know personal meeting and relationship building is still key to the commercial business for us because we have to know the broadcasters we have to know They're going to launch some channels. We have to know the streaming owners, rights holders only. And also it's important that we know the platforms and you can only do that through relationship building. So in all my years of sort of, you know, running commercial teams, you know, I think it's so invaluable that we've got people that can present well, can understand the customer needs and really do it face to face. And I think the world's really good at, you know, sending us to events. You know, we're covering lots of events in Europe. If I look at my calendar for the next few months, I've got a lot of events coming up for a fair bit of travel, but it's the only way you get to meet people and understand what they're really looking for.

:: 31:29

I'm assuming that that's even more important when you're talking about technology, which can be intimidating slash overwhelming to people who don't think about it day in, day out. The ability to establish that trusted relationship with you. is fundamental to helping move. It's not a quick sales cycle. It is. So, you know, it's chopping away at that by making sure that you're present and develop that trust.

:: 31:50

is. So,

:: 31:56

Yeah, absolutely. And that is key. And there are technologies that obviously can grow at scale without any humans. And that's there, and that's always going to do well. The business we're in, where it's, you know, we're dealing with the content partners, and we understand what they need to do, and we help them launch a channel. and we get them live etc is all key and that's a better relationship for the advertisers they want to advertise them because when we look at our ad products we know that we know the content you know we know a lot of the metadata a lot of our data sets are enriched by the fact that we work with the broadcasters and the channels so again but we've only got there through building that relationship up so yes i think you know when the streams are live a lot of that technology takes over you know the growth is through you know real -time bidding yeah how to get the ads in how to grow etc so so you know that technology takes over but it you know initially to especially in the sports market you know you've got to get to know everybody as you look down the road and as as we begin to wrap up i'm wondering what advice you have for rights holders now who are looking at the landscape ahead of them and are knowing they need to make a change

:: 32:47

how to

:: 32:51

know initially

:: 32:57

you look down the road and as as we begin to wrap up i'm wondering what advice you have for rights holders now who are looking at the landscape ahead of them and are knowing they need to make a change or need to create opportunities for new products? What should they be paying attention to? What questions do you think they should be asking of people like you?

:: 33:26

Well, I think they really need to look at their cross -marketing platform strategy. And I mean, making sure they understand where their end users are and what they're doing, how they're consuming content. And I think CTV is one part. of the strategy and i think if you're not looking at that part of the strategy you're potentially going to miss out on that viewership you know getting live to many countries that aren't going to buy the rights that you can go to so i think there's an opportunity for niche sports content and the big brands and the big brands are obviously you know all looking at their marketing strategies across the board but there's the opportunity for the small brands to really get out there and target end users in a different way so i you know i you know i've always loved marketing i think that it's an essential part and i see lots of people that don't do marketing for new channels for instance you know which i think well why wouldn't you be promoting it by all means don't tell anybody you have this new product out there well they can't talk to well they can find out more but you know i certainly think that the it's so

:: 34:23

all means don't tell anybody you have this new product out there well

:: 34:25

they can't talk to well they can find out more but you know i certainly think that the it's so you know diverse how we get content you've got to be looking at every strategy and and the money and the dollars will shift to different places and you've got to go with market they have to be ready for them when they get there exactly keith bedford of world i think we've identified six other podcast topics that we could probably have uh over the next course of the coming months so i want to thank you for your time but before i let you go i've got to put you into the lightning round i have a couple of different lightning round categories for you to answer first thing that comes into your mind

:: 34:43

have to be ready for them when they get there exactly keith bedford of world i think we've identified six other podcast topics that we could probably have uh over the next course of the coming months so i want to thank you for your time but before i let you go i've got to put you into the lightning round i have a couple of different lightning round categories for you to answer first thing that comes into your mind are you ready yes go all right here we go first one we'll call united kingdom either or football or cricket football yeah that was that was if you're just listening then you missed the dismissive eye roll that went along with that all right uh in terms of bond craig or connery oh craig definitely i'll go with craig the new one uh bangers or mash yeah mash

:: 35:05

go all right here we go

:: 35:06

right here we go first one we'll call united kingdom either or football or cricket football yeah that was that was if you're just listening then you missed the dismissive eye roll that went along with that all right uh in terms of bond craig or connery oh

:: 35:26

definitely i'll go with craig the new one uh bangers or mash yeah

:: 35:31

mash

:: 35:32

Yeah, mash every time. All right, so that's our UK either or. Now we're going to go USA, and I got some USA things. I want you to give me the English equivalent of what this is. I'm under pressure now.

:: 35:43

this is. I'm under pressure now.

:: 35:45

All right, I'll give you two options. You can give me the UK equivalent or just the first thing that comes into your mind.

:: 35:48

the UK equivalent

:: 35:49

just the first thing that comes into your mind. Okay, go. Ready? All right, the USA. All right, Coors Light Beer. Oh, San Miguel. Okay, NASCAR Auto Racing. Oh, Formula One. okay bald eagles oh that's a tough one it would be a it would be a sparrow hawk here or a red kite no one that's a bit too small it bears probably got that one so i'll go with the second answer because a red kite right okay okay uh ford mustang oh i love a ford mustang bear that's been martin for me uh well that's hard not to love as well last one american football

:: 36:06

that's a

:: 36:07

tough one

:: 36:07

it would be a it would be a sparrow hawk here or a red kite no

:: 36:13

one that's a bit too small it bears probably got that one so i'll go with the second answer because a red kite right okay okay uh ford mustang oh

:: 36:24

i love a ford mustang bear that's been martin

:: 36:25

that's been martin for me uh

:: 36:27

well that's hard not to love as well last one american football

:: 36:31

it's got to be uh soccer really isn't it i guess so it just really has to be keith ever appreciate appreciate the time man oh thanks very much enjoyed that thank you done thank you sir okay excellent good uh i will have this edited up next week or so i'll send it along to the team and everybody can get a good listen on it make sure everything lines up good but that was that's going to be an easy easy edit that was that was excellent

:: 36:33

really isn't it i guess so it just really has to be keith ever appreciate appreciate the time man oh

:: 36:37

ever appreciate appreciate the

:: 36:42

thanks very much enjoyed that thank you