Overcoming the Unthinkable: Robert Paylor's Journey From Paralyzed to Powerful

00:00

Robert Paylor

Hi, this is Robert Paylor, author of Paralyzed to Powerful Lessons from a Quadriplegic's Journey. And this is the Sports Business Conversations podcast from ADC Partners.

00:25

Dave Almy

ely qualified to speak to. In: 2017

01:32

Dave Almy

Just moments into the game, an illegal play by an opposing player broke Robert's neck and left him immobile on the ground, unable to feel a thing. And so begins Robert's path to recovery, which he recounts in his just released book, From Paralyzed to Lessons from A Quadriplegics Journey. From the dark moments that immediately follow his injury to. To his remarkable path through grief and anger towards purpose and forgiveness. Robert talks about the tools he used to help him thrive today. And who knows, they might help you on your path too. So thanks for listening in on my conversation with Robert Paylor, author of From Paralyzed to Lessons from a Quadriplegic's Journey, which is now available on Amazon. I know you'll be glad you did. Robert, talk to me about your athletic experience before you arrived at Cal. Right.

02:34

Dave Almy

You grew up in El Dorado Hills, which is the base of the Sierra. So did you like play everything under the sun? Did you have like a specific area.

02:41

Robert Paylor

Of focus like, oh my gosh. When I was a kid, sports was everything.

02:44

Dave Almy

Everything.

02:45

Robert Paylor

I mean, it was what I dreamt about. It's like what I was getting ready to do when I woke up in the morning. And I grew up playing the big three traditional sports, football, basketball, baseball. I was always a big guy. I was kind of biggest in my class. I'm 65 now, you know, here, fully grown, but so I was good at baseball, I was good at basketball, but I was really good at football.

03:09

Dave Almy

You were knocking the peewees over, weren't you?

03:11

Robert Paylor

Oh yeah. I love hitting people. You know, it's like, it's funny. And I write about this in my book. My first year, I tried out for football, actually got cut. I didn't even make the team. Didn't even make it to one practice. And here I was like, you know, I had number 99 on my back, like X Men type thing.

03:27

Dave Almy

And you were ready to go?

03:29

Robert Paylor

Oh, yeah. But I just, like, I didn't have that fire in me at first.

03:32

Dave Almy

Yeah.

03:33

Robert Paylor

And I remember, like, there was this one day in practice where I had this buddy of mine on my team, really close buddy, but I knew he wasn't as good as me, and he got like this starting spot over me. I was just enraged. And I remember, like, that. That flitch that. That. That switch flipped and I was like, I'm going to put this guy on his back every single play for the rest of this practice. And I did. I mean, I'm screaming.

04:01

Dave Almy

Was that like a beating of, like, that understanding of competitiveness in you? Like, that was like when you really first felt that burning, like, oh, this guy's going down.

04:09

Robert Paylor

Yeah, it is. Before that, I was just kind of like going through the motions. You know, I'm like 10 or 11, 12 years old at the time.

04:16

Dave Almy

And you're bigger, so you kind of have to let the size kind of was able to dictate everything totally.

04:21

Robert Paylor

But I just didn't use it. I didn't, like, use the gifts I was having. And my dad was coaching me and he was frustrated. He was really frustrated. Saw these kind of these gifts, this potential that I had, and I wasn't using it. And it was like that moment that, like, it really clicked for me. And later, like, the other coaches are coming up to him. They're like, is everything okay at home? Like, how is your relationship with your wife? Like, the family environment, it was like, it seemed like that bad, but it was. But like, I go back and I'm just like, payoffs immediate. I became a starter in a day and then just started translating that to rest of my life. And that's just kind of like, it really built the foundation, that solid foundation.

04:58

Dave Almy

On which other things are based. So when did you first find rugby? Like, when did your eyes first open to that? And what was your first experience playing that sport?

05:06

Robert Paylor

Yeah, so I think the first time I ever even heard about the game, there was the mom of a friend of mine who went over to New Zealand.

05:14

Dave Almy

Oh, yeah, well, that'll do it.

05:16

Robert Paylor

That'll do it. And she went over and heard of the famous New Zealand All Black.

05:20

Dave Almy

All Blacks, yeah.

05:21

Robert Paylor

She wanted to go see a game and the only thing I knew about it was she came back and there was someone who had lost their mouth guard and in contact, they bit through their lip.

05:32

Dave Almy

Like the old extra mouth. Yeah.

05:36

Robert Paylor

Teeth that. He went through their lip. And I thought, that's crazy. I will never be a part of that game. I'll probably never even watch a game. These guys.

05:46

Dave Almy

Lunatics who play that sport.

05:49

Robert Paylor

Exactly. So I just kind of, you know, I'm really, like, developing mostly in football. And I'm doing, you know, doing really well. Kind of best on my team. Mvp, captain and all that. All that good stuff. Really hoping to play in college one day. And then I go over to Jesuit High School in Sacramento, which has the number one high school rugby program in America.

06:08

Dave Almy

That's a big deal.

06:09

Robert Paylor

10 national championships right now.

06:11

Dave Almy

Okay. Yeah.

06:12

Robert Paylor

Incredible culture. And they're not just winning hardware. Everybody loves playing for this team. That's like 100 players on the squad. Everybody's getting time. Everybody loves it. And like I said, I'm just a measly 6 5. I was always playing basketball all the time. We had guys on the grade above me. I was 610, another guy, 6 8. And they weren't just bodies like, they could play. They wanted to go play D1 and stuff. So I'm thinking I'll probably make the team. But even if I do, I think I'm going to ride the pine. I don't think I can compete with these guys.

06:44

Dave Almy

So I started looking for other options.

06:46

Robert Paylor

Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of shopping around and all my friends, like, you have to try rugby. It's such a fun sport. We're really great and competitive, and it's a pipeline to go play for Cal, which has the number one collegiate rugby program in the nation. We just won our 34th national championship on. On May 3rd versus Life University. So it was kind of enticing. I was thinking, man, you know, I think I'd be pretty good. I like hitting people. We're really successful, and I could go to a school like Cal, and I made that decision.

07:15

Dave Almy

So, first of all, I was wondering how long it was going to take for you to mention that Cal just won the national championship. And we was four and a half minutes into the conversation. So I think we hit the under. Yeah. So I think for people who may not be as familiar with rugby as the average Bear, playing for Cal is a big deal. I mean, that program exists on a whole other plane of college rugby. I mean, you just alluded to it with 34 national championships for those who are a little less familiar with the sport. Can you talk a little bit about what it's like playing for a team that is that recognized as being dominant in the sport and being able to do so?

07:58

Robert Paylor

Oh, my gosh, it's amazing. I mean, gosh, you think of, like, who are the dominant sports programs of our time right now? You think a lot of times, like Alabama football, you think Duke basketball. If you know you're in women's basketball, you think UConn. Like, you think of these just incredible programs with incredible leaders at the top of the helm, leading their program as the head coach. And I mean, Cal, when you look at its sport individually, kind of blows them out of the water. So now I just said 34 national championships. That's with the tournament only even having existed for about 50 years.

08:31

Dave Almy

Right.

08:32

Robert Paylor

So you have decades straight of Cal winning the championship.

08:36

Dave Almy

Oh, if you look it up online and you get, like, the grid that shows national championships, it just calcal. Particularly when it first got rolling.

08:44

Robert Paylor

Oh, yeah. Everywhere. So if you want to be the best rugby player you can be in America, you go to Cal.

08:50

Dave Almy

You go to Cal and you play for Jack Clark.

08:51

Robert Paylor

That's right. Yeah. Who just notched out his, gosh, 30th national championship in his coaching career. So rugby is really enticing, but the university is wonderful, right? Number one public university in the world. I wanted to go get a business degree. High school of business has a great reputation, something that I really wanted to get into. So it just made so much sense. It was a dream for me. So when I got that call and I still have the voicemail on my phone.

09:15

Dave Almy

You really.

09:15

Robert Paylor

Oh, yeah, I do. I'll go back to it. It's from coach Vagoni, who is, like, our operations director, and. And he gave me that call. I went out and I went to their camp, which is really the main way that they recruit and find talent. And I had a great camp. And they said, hey, we're really interested, and we want to talk to you about coming to the University of California. And, gosh, that was the best phone call ever.

09:35

Dave Almy

The greatest team at one of the greatest universities taps you on the shoulder and says, we want you to come here. I mean, what. I mean, I'm getting prickles on the top of my skull just listening to you say it now. I mean, what was that experience like for you? Did you just, like. Is it like a speechless moment, your heart race kind of thing? And this is the dream come true.

09:54

Robert Paylor

Dream come true. Yeah. That's what I was Going to go to. I mean, when you're an athlete, you. You dream, you think about these moments your whole life and when you know it was a lofty goal. I knew it wouldn't be easy going to play for Cal. They are at no shortage of talent.

10:08

Dave Almy

Right.

10:08

Robert Paylor

Everybody on that team was captain. They were mvp. They're all Americans in high school. So I knew that it was like it was a dream come true. But I also knew it was going to be a challenge. This was not something where I was just going to be able to walk into this program and start and really compete at a high level. I was going to have to develop a lot more as a player. But I knew that if I were to go to another school, I would just regret it for my entire life. I had to go all in.

10:33

Dave Almy

the national championship in: 2016

10:38

Robert Paylor

That's right.

10:39

Dave Almy

And you made it back to the championship game the following years. How are you feeling going into that game?

10:46

Robert Paylor

Elated. So my freshman year, I wasn't like on the traveling roster that won that national championship, which is super common. It is exceedingly rare for a. For a freshman to be starting on the rugby team, especially at my position, which is called lock. So the lock position, kind of like a tight end in football. Similar body type, tall, pretty big, but you also got to be lean because you got to be able to move that field for 80 minutes straight.

11:13

Dave Almy

Yeah. It is not a sport for people with lack of cardio.

11:17

Robert Paylor

No, no. I mean, it's amazing. And it's not rolling substitutions like in, you know, football or hockey or basketball. Once you're out, you're gone. So if you're a starter, you're most likely going to play the entire game unless you just really tucker out or make some mistakes. So I really had to push it and I kind of had to go from like that, you know, five seconds on, 30 seconds off type conditioning in football to where it's just that constant rolling, always moving and, and really having to develop in size as well. I mean, this, you're playing with the big boys and the contact is more intense. It's. It's a much faster game.

11:58

Robert Paylor

My freshman year, I developed into that, but then my sophomore year, that lock position had kind of opened up for the starting spot and we had some really competitive guys and some guys who were older than me who were going for this position as well. And I put in a lot of extra effort, you know, after every Practice, I was going over to the gym, hitting the weights, doing more cardio, really building myself to where I eventually earned that starting spot as a sophomore. So very difficult during a freshman starting spot. Sophomore, very rare as well. So, again, dreams are coming alive for me to compete for this national championship. We had a really successful season that year, and were going up to play Arkansas State, which we felt really confident.

12:40

Dave Almy

You were confident about what was going to happen there?

12:42

Robert Paylor

Yeah, I don't think they've ever won a national championship before. And at this time, this was going for our 31st national championship. So been there, done that kind of feeling. We felt really good going into the game.

12:53

Dave Almy

So what do you remember, if anything, about the play where you were injured?

12:59

Robert Paylor

I remember everything.

13:00

Dave Almy

Oh.

13:01

Robert Paylor

Oh, my goodness. I will remember that moment better than any moment in my life, to be honest.

13:08

Dave Almy

So explain the circumstances of what was happening.

13:10

Robert Paylor

Yeah. So we go in to this match really early on, like a minute and a half. They commit a penalty. So we do what's called kicking it into touch. Yeah, we kick the ball out of bounds, and where the ball goes out of bounds, we do like an inbounds called a line out. We lift guys up in the air like cheerleaders, and then we start going for it. Now we're about 7 meters out for this line out. Very obvious mauling situation, which is where the bigger guys, we group up in one unit and then we start pushing to advance the ball and. And the defense's job has come straight in. They try to stop us from moving forward. So very much a boiler room. Big guys thrive in this environment. I was a big guy, six five, 245 pounds.

13:52

Dave Almy

My enjoy contact.

13:54

Robert Paylor

Oh, I crave it, I seek it. And like I'm thinking, I'm going to plow this thing in. We're going to put an early try on this team. I'm going to get my shoulder tapped tomorrow and film saying, nice job, pillar driving that mall in. So I'm kind of just drooling here, thinking, let's go, Rob. You got to drive this thing in. And then it's as I'm doing that the opposing players, they start making illegal moves. Referee's not calling it. So three players entering from the side of the mall. Those are all infractions. Can't do that. But the ref doesn't call it. And then their number eight comes in and he binds my head in a headlock. So my chin is kind of pinned down to my chest.

14:29

Dave Almy

From behind you?

14:30

Robert Paylor

From my side, from your side, from My side, which is illegal, can't do that. But the arm lock around the neck, very illegal. It's an automatic yellow or red card. And in fact, it was that year that world rugby, which is the sport's global governing body, increased emphasis on this type of play, saying that if you so much as make contact, just touch the head or neck, it's an automatic yellow card, which is a 10 minute suspension. If there's any sort of danger behind it, then it's an automatic red card. You're gonna show the game and you're even reviewed for further suspension.

15:03

Dave Almy

Yeah.

15:04

Robert Paylor

So for whatever reason, the referee's not calling it. And I think as an athlete, there's really not a lot you can do in those kinds of situations. There's really only two probably. And one is you stand up and you throw your arms out to the.

15:16

Dave Almy

Side and go, what the hell? Yeah.

15:17

Robert Paylor

Yeah. Hey ref, what's going on? You going to call this? And then number two, you can just keep moving forward.

15:22

Dave Almy

Keep moving forward.

15:23

Robert Paylor

That was my choice.

15:24

Dave Almy

Yeah.

15:24

Robert Paylor

So I keep my shoulder level, down, kind of back flat, pointed forward. And as I'm doing that, another player chops me down by my legs. Another penalty.

15:33

Dave Almy

So you drop.

15:34

Robert Paylor

So I'm falling. This guy is torquing down on my neck. I cannot get my head up and I'm just. It's common that these malls collapse. So I'm just kind of. Okay, brace for impact. Here we go. Gonna keep, gonna keep moving forward. I hit the ground, I feel a snap, God awful crunch in my neck. And then just poof.

15:54

Dave Almy

Everything's out.

15:55

Robert Paylor

Gone. My mind completely clear and conscious. I did not lose consciousness for one second. But it's just intense buzzing. Pins and needles everywhere on my body. I can't move anything. I can't feel anything. My life just changed.

16:11

Dave Almy

And you're crystalline aware of everything that's happening mentally in this moment.

16:17

Robert Paylor

100% aware. And I'll be like immediately, I assume the worse.

16:21

Dave Almy

So you did realize this was something different. I mean, I mean you're playing contact sports throughout your childhood. You've clearly been injured in the past. I mean, so you had a immediate awareness that this was not your typical injury.

16:38

Robert Paylor

No, I had broken a lot of bones before in competition and in that adrenaline rush, it, there was no pain that ever came with it. It was almost just like this numbing blunt force impact to the bone. You know, that was my wrist, my hands, things like that. I felt that very familiar feeling in my neck. Yeah, that was immediate, like, oh boy, that's not good.

16:59

Dave Almy

That's not where you want that to happen.

17:01

Robert Paylor

Oh. And, you know, first, I just kind of tried to instinctually get up, because that's what you do in rugby. You go down to the ground and you just keep moving.

17:07

Dave Almy

Right.

17:08

Robert Paylor

And after my instincts didn't really get me up, then I. You know, within a half second, I'm taking a mental inventory, and I'm kind of laying, like, prone on my chest. My head is kind of tilted down to the side. I actually, my forehead went all the way down to my chest. At one point, my face was pressed against my sternum. And then as the pile moved, I was able to just kind of, like, just naturally I couldn't move, but my body just sort of felt to where I. I didn't. I no longer had my. My face on my chest, and I. So I can see the left side of my body, and I'm like, okay, wiggle your toes. Come on, something. I look at my left hand, which is just sitting next to me, and I'm like, lift up your arm.

17:49

Robert Paylor

Like, close it into a fist. Wiggle a finger. Nothing's happening. Keep in mind, the referee didn't stop play. So I'm sitting here screaming, I can't move. I can't feel anything. F word here. F word there. I'm just, like, absolutely terrified because they're playing, like, around meters away from me. I mean, multiple phases of play came near me. If someone would have landed on me in that moment, I certainly would have had a more severe injury. I might not even be here today. So we ended up scoring on them, and that's what even stopped play. But I just. All my thoughts are running wild, and I'm thinking, am I ever going to be able to go back to school, graduate, have a family, have a career?

18:34

Dave Almy

All this is flipping through your mind as you're laying on the field just moments after your injury. Everything, your mind is almost in overdrive.

18:42

Robert Paylor

Oh, yeah. I thought about this story of a Rutgers football player named Eric Legrand. Yep.

18:47

Dave Almy

Absolutely.

18:48

Robert Paylor

Yeah. I had seen Eric's story while I was growing up. You know, he was a special teams player, kickoff play, missed time to hit kind of thing, and total fluke accident, but paralyzed from about the neck down. And he couldn't even breathe on his own at one point. I mean, Eric has the heart and spirit of an absolute warrior and such a good attitude, but he still deals with a lot of paralysis. And I was thinking, that's going to be me, and I might not even progress as well as he had I really just saw myself looking outside a window for the rest of my life. My mom's going to spoon feed me.

19:22

Dave Almy

Yeah.

19:23

Robert Paylor

One day she's going to die, and then I'm just going to, like, have a caregiver who I barely know just kind of keep me alive. This is going to be the rest of my life.

19:30

Dave Almy

And this is in the two minutes that followed the initial injury. That's how quickly your mind raced to try to look at the path from the moment where you went, all right, try to wiggle my fingers to, okay, here's my life for the rest. I mean, obviously, then a number of things happen. You know, you're obviously carted off the field. You go to hospital. Fortunately, the San Francisco Bay Area's got great medical care in it, so you're able to get to some great spots. But there has to come this moment where you're confronted with a doctor who explains to your situation. Is it possible to explain that moment when you're told that you're looking at quadriplegia?

20:16

Robert Paylor

Yeah, it was hard. And what happened was, we go to the hospital. I'm kind of holding out some glimmer of hope. I'm asking people, am I going to walk? And they say, I don't know. So I'm hoping that means they might say, y. Yeah. And I do all my medical imaging. My doctor comes in the room. Bad look on his face. Very matter of fact. He says, robert, you will never walk again. You will never move your hands. You'll be lucky if one day you can do something like pick up a piece of pizza and bring it to your face. And if that's. If you survive. He recommended I go into a spinal fusion surgery, essentially permanently casting my cervical spine at the area at which it had been broken.

20:54

Robert Paylor

Said it was my best chance at stability, but I might not wake up from the surgery. It's. It's high risk. My body was already and just freaking out under this trauma. I had a fever of 103 degrees. I spiked up to 105 when I was in the MRI machine. And, I mean, you just are a little bit off in one of these surgeries and things get bad really quick. And he told me before I went into this surgery and made a decision, he said at one hour to make a choice, that I can make some phone calls. My faith is incredibly important to me. And in this moment, I needed God. So I called my spiritual director. I told him what's going on, asked for his prayers. He gives me this piece of advice that just changed my outlook.

21:31

Robert Paylor

It gave me so much power in a powerless situation. And he said, throughout this journey, there's gonna be a lot of things you can't control, but the one thing you'll have control over is your mindset. So your positivity, your ambition, your willingness to wake up every day and fight this is up to you. This injury cannot take that away from you. And I think that's just a lesson for all of us, right, that when we have that mountain of a task in front of us, when we just don't know where to go, we have to just zoom in on what's going on at this current moment. What is the next most important thing right now for me to take on? Not look at that mountain in front of us, but just look at our own two feet. Control your mindset. Keep moving forward.

22:11

Robert Paylor

That really helped me when I heard that news, to where I was like, you don't know how hard I'm willing to work, and I'm going to give everything I have to get everything I can get out of this recovery. I was just controlling my mindset.

22:24

Dave Almy

There's this moment, I guess, where it goes, when so much is out of your control to focus in on those things that you can control. And I'm wondering, too, like, your faith is very important to you, and I think, obviously some of it stems from that, but also a legacy of competitiveness as an athlete. Like, you learned. We talked. The first thing you talked about was kind of entering into the football practice, kind of like la di da, and then having to shift your mindset. So this is almost. It feels almost like training for the moment when something like this happened to you. You had tools, faith, and experience at your disposal that you were able to really lean on at that time.

23:10

Robert Paylor

That's exactly it. It's the second chapter in my book. I talk about building a foundation. I am confident that I would not have been able to respond positively in that situation. When I got that news from the doctor, if I didn't have that strong foundation already built for me in my life, you know, that's that sense of faith, really believing that there's a plan. For me, the plan is good. And then that. That discipline, that toughness, I mean, winning those national championships doesn't just happen. You earn it every year. And when were down late in the game, we didn't think like, all right, pack up your toys, boys. We're going home.

23:45

Dave Almy

We're done.

23:46

Robert Paylor

No, we're working harder. I mean, we're getting everything I have. As the challenge increases, so does our effort, so does our resolve. And it was that same kind of mentality. This is the biggest challenge I've faced in my entire life. But I'm going to take it on with the same mindset, and the only way I know how, which is to never give up.

24:03

Dave Almy

I want to talk to you about two different outcomes from understanding your new situation in life. Right there has to be, I'm assuming, a grief process that. Where you go through. So I'd like you to talk about, if you can, what that was like for you as you came to terms with your injury. And then I also want to talk to you a little about forgiveness, too, because as we've talked about in the past, the. You never heard from the opposing team or the player who caused the injury, which I think was a source of real anger for you at first. So let's start with the concept of. Of. Of grief and moving through towards acceptance for you as you came to terms with the injury.

24:47

Robert Paylor

Yeah, that was hard. I mean, I really don't think I properly grieved this injury until about a year later, which I think was good, because I was very busy after my injury. I mean, I had pneumonia, I couldn't swallow. I had to fight for my life. And I was sleeping maybe an hour or two hours a day. I mean, it was. It was unbelievable what I was going through in the beginning there. And. And then, you know, I'm doing my rehab. I was so busy all the time that I just didn't even have the time to sit back and read.

25:17

Dave Almy

I mean, there's survival and then there's recovery. I mean, I'm assuming those are. Those are keeping you busy. For sure.

25:22

Robert Paylor

Yeah. And then I go over to Cal a year later to get to finish my degree, and I had gained a lot back and I could live independently. I didn't have need to have a caregiver, so I didn't want one. And I was just kind of by myself. I couldn't live with my buddies because in Berkeley, it's a lot of older houses, a lot of stairs. So I was with a couple people who. They're great guys, but, you know, were more friends out of, like, convenience and connection. And I had those moments where I remember my coaches and my teammates helped me pack up all my stuff and get settled in, and I was like, all right, I'll see you later. And then it kind of hit me. I'm like, whoa, I'm by myself now.

25:58

Robert Paylor

And I didn't have all Those distractions all the time. And there was a lot of times when I was late at night on my phone and I remember I had like this 3 second video clip on my phone of the moment my injury happened. And I would just loop it for hours watching this thing. I just want. How is this even possible? It's really difficult to explain how hard it is to wrap your head around an injury like this where you're a D1 athlete. Your body and your physicality is your sense of pride and purpose to where, I mean, I like, have a hard time just going to the bathroom and getting dressed in the morning and things like that.

26:34

Dave Almy

You're relearning everything.

26:36

Robert Paylor

Everything. And gosh, I just, I needed to process what had happened. And, you know, I think it's good that I had some time before that happened or I think it really would have crushed me. Luckily, I had so much support in that time. And it wasn't like I was always sitting in that state of grief that I could get up, I could go to my classes, go to my workouts, be with my friends and keep moving forward through this injury. But that was not an easy thing for me to go through. And I'll be honest, it probably took me, gosh, about a year and a half before I could really be like, you know what this happened, and I'm grateful for what it gave me, not held back by what I've lost. So that's that kind of, that one mental challenge.

27:15

Robert Paylor

But beyond that was forgiveness.

27:17

Dave Almy

Yeah, let's talk about that.

27:19

Robert Paylor

That was the most difficult mental challenge I think I went through.

27:22

Dave Almy

I think, because I think even like stages of grief. Right. Anger's. Anger is a part of it.

27:25

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

27:26

Dave Almy

And clearly this was a. I would, I would assume would be a focus of that anger.

27:32

Robert Paylor

Huge. I mean, I really didn't know how I had gotten injured when it first happened. I mean, it was all very quick.

27:38

Dave Almy

Sure.

27:39

Robert Paylor

I couldn't have told you, like, hey, this is exactly everything that happened. And there's this pressure on my neck. I mean, there's a lot of contact points going on in a mall. And the whole thing unfolded in maybe like five seconds. And the camera angle from the live stream on NBC Sports wasn't really that great. From the press box, you couldn't see what was going. But then it was a day later that we got this footage from people in the end zone and the try, the try line. That what happened to me was clearly a bind around my neck. Flagrant, illegal Penalty driven all the way down to the ground. And my coaches didn't show me the video, but I heard about it and they wanted to let me know because I needed to know what had happened. And I.

28:20

Dave Almy

So they hesitated showing it to you? Do you had to, like, request it from them or.

28:25

Robert Paylor

Yeah, I mean, I didn't see it till months after my own. I actually see it happen. But they did show my parents and. And let me know that what happened was illegal, that this wasn't a fluke, that. That I was. I was dragged down by my head.

28:39

Dave Almy

Yeah.

28:40

Robert Paylor

And I was filled with a rage like I can't even describe because at that time, I couldn't even breathe on my own. I couldn't swallow anything. We put a tube up my nose and into my stomach. It took three days to get in there.

28:52

Dave Almy

Yeah.

28:53

Robert Paylor

I lost £60 in a month. So £2 a day. My body is shedding away from me. I can't go to the bathroom. I can't roll myself over in bed. I can't even itch my nose or wipe my own tears as I'm crying at the end of the night. And all of this that I'm going through is not because I was doing something stupid. You know, I didn't get drunk and start driving a car. I didn't go dive into a kiddie pool or something like that.

29:18

Dave Almy

You're not engaging in Dave Alamy level stupidity.

29:22

Robert Paylor

I'm competing for a national championship, and someone illegally made a move and hasn't said he's sorry. So that's just laying out the rage that I felt in that moment. And a lot of it came back to faith in that moment where I was taught to always forgive others. Doesn't matter what I feel. Doesn't matter how bad it was. Forgiveness is always the answer. And I was kind of like, okay, God, if you say so, boy.

29:47

Dave Almy

Here's the test.

29:48

Robert Paylor

Yeah, it was very much felt like a test. And I decided I will say that I forgive this person whether I really feel it or not.

29:57

Dave Almy

So you begin the process that way. You vocalize it, make it out loud and a real thing.

30:03

Robert Paylor

Totally fake it till you make it kind of thing. Like not sugarcoating at all. I was faking it till I made it.

30:10

Dave Almy

I forgive you.

30:12

Robert Paylor

Exactly. And you know what? I think there's so much truth to it. I don't think that forgiveness is just a feeling, that feeling of peace that comes when you finally moved on. I think it's a decision. I think they really go hand in hand. And I Describe it as like a fire analogy that when we are wrong, there's someone who comes over and they light this wood pile on fire and it's raging, it's roaring, and they get the heck out of there. And you are here, like to tend to this fire. And if you keep saying hatred, hateful things, and just kind of seething in that animosity, you're just throwing wood on that fire. It's raging, it's burning you. But if you choose to not give words to that hatred, you kind of let that fire just burn itself out.

30:56

Dave Almy

And just like spends all its energy.

30:59

Robert Paylor

Yeah. Time can start running its course. And I found that forgiveness is its power really isn't so much in removing guilt from someone who did wrong. It's about removing those negative attachments from the person who was wrong. So I think there's very few generalities in life that just always applies to every situation, but I can confidently say that forgiveness is just always the answer.

31:23

Dave Almy

Yeah, it's kind of the stoics approach to how you're approaching your place in the world and what those things that happen to you end up meaning to you. I mean, it's a remarkable position to be able to take in a great lesson for people. As I talked about, Solly Folp is a friend of both of ours and he's actually also been a guest on this show, so I'll have to actually fuse the two of them together at some point. And I spoke to him before we recorded and he shared a story about being in your hospital room just a couple days after you were injured. He didn't know you particularly well at that time. He was, I think a nephew of his was playing on the team or something like that.

32:04

Dave Almy

And he came to your room and you apparently looked at him when your situation was still pretty dicey. I mean, I think doctors were clearing fluid from your lungs every 15 minutes.

32:16

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

32:17

Dave Almy

And in the middle of this, your prognosis being uncertain, you apparently told him like, oh, hey, Solly, nice to meet you. I'm going to be finishing my Cal degree and then I'm going to be enrolling in your sports business class at the Haas School of Business.

32:30

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

32:31

Dave Almy

And I guess he was kind of taken aback by the whole thing. Kind of surprised by it. Like, I mean, this. This guy doesn't know if he's going to be alive in a couple of days. Do you recall the moment when you said that to him and what your mindset was, had you already started entering into this progression part?

32:49

Robert Paylor

Yeah, I did you know it. I do remember that moment. And it's so funny to hear him say it now because I. He went back to his wife that night and he told me this later. He was like. He said, I don't even know if Robert's going to survive. And here he is telling me that he's going to get into the hot school of business, which ain't easy, and then he's going to take my class. And it was so important for me to have goals like that, have a vision, have something to look forward to. I think that's something that's so important for all of us to think about. What do we want our life to look like? What are we actually working for? And to have a hunger, have an appetite. About that.

33:30

Robert Paylor

I was thinking, my vision that was set for me by my doctor on day one is, hey, Robert, you'll be lucky if you can pick up a piece of pizza. I wasn't going to do it. For me, you know, going over to.

33:40

Dave Almy

Mountain, picking up the pizza was not the motivator.

33:43

Robert Paylor

No, no. I am not that much of a pepperoni fan. Yeah, those coupons just go in and out of my mailbox. No, I mean, that's not. That's not what's going to get you up out of bed in the morning. That's not what's going to motivate you to do something like battle against quadriplegia or build a business, motivate a team, provide for your family. No, I mean, it needs to be something that you want as much as a quadriplegic wants to walk. And that was such a big part of my goal that I didn't want to just push for these physical outcomes. I didn't want my life to be on hold anymore. And I wanted goals like that to get into the hospital of business, to take awesome classes like Professor Folt's class.

34:21

Robert Paylor

And that really kept me going when I was in those tough moments. And you're right. I mean, it was almost constant that people were coming into my room, clearing fluid out of my lungs, turning me over, checking my vital signs. I mean, I crave, just get like 20 minutes to doze off. And it all came down to, like, control your mindset and what are you working for when. When you have that kind of appetite to achieve a goal like that. Choosing whether to get up and work or not isn't even a decision anymore. It's just what you have to do. So I think, like, that vision component was so key to what I went through. I think everybody needs to spend more time on that.

34:57

Dave Almy

You do graduate from Cal. You do get into the Haas School of Business. You do end up taking Professor. I can't say Professor Fulp. Solly's class. And it was also. He encouraged you to tell your story to the class, which became one of your first opportunities to speak in a public setting.

35:15

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

35:16

Dave Almy

So how did you prepare for that first opportunity? And what was your reaction, how people responded to you? I mean, I'm sure we can all understand what their reaction is, but I'm wondering what your reaction and feelings were, watching them react.

35:32

Robert Paylor

I didn't know it at the time, but my life changed a lot on that day. And I remember when I got back to Cal, Sally had helped me a lot with putting together my application to get into the business school. So I had not even been accepted into the program before my injury. This was something that happened while I was doing my rehab in Denver. And I show up, it's like, first week, and I'm like, let's go, you know, grab a coffee, Sally. And we go over to the courtyard in the Haas School of Business. I remember, like, the table. I remember everything about it. And he's like, this is so good to have you here, Robert. I really want you to speak to my class because you have a very visible challenge.

36:08

Robert Paylor

People look at you and they can just see a guy who goes through a lot. I know we can't see my full body here, but I'm in a wheelchair, and you can just see that I deal with a lot of adversity every day. But for most people, you can't see what they're going through. They're very invisible challenges. But these tools that have helped me in overcoming this very physical challenge, I think can help everybody overcome what paralyzes them mentally or emotionally. So he asked me if I'd come in and give, like, a 20 minute talk to his class, which is much longer than anything I had done to that point.

36:37

Dave Almy

Right. Okay. 20 minutes is a long time.

36:39

Robert Paylor

Yeah. I mean, I'll rally the boys for like, 30 seconds at halftime or something like that, but nothing like this.

36:47

Dave Almy

Were you hesitant at all? Did you see the opportunity? Were you excited to do it? Or you're like, okay, I was excited.

36:53

Robert Paylor

But I was a little nervous, too. I mean, it's. It's also not easy for me to go back to that moment. Sure. You know, and describe it in great detail. It's a very emotional thing that I went through. But I wanted to make sure that I did this right, because in sharing this story and seeing the impact it was making on others already to that point, I was really given a great sense of meaning in my life. So I go over to who other than Coach Clark, who is a fantastic, of course rugby coach, but culture consultant, high performing teams guy, just incredible speaker, cares so much about my journey and my success. And we sit down and we start going through these stories in my journey and then the takeaways, those tools that people can use to overcome what's challenging them.

37:33

Robert Paylor

And we came up with this initial script. So I go over to Sally's class. Coach Clark gave me an intro. Best intro I've had in my entire life. Just amazing. And I start reading this thing and you know, at the time it's my first speech and I'm like, I don't know, 21 years old, 22. And I, I got like the script on my lap, you know, from kind of like reading down and looking up.

37:51

Dave Almy

You don't know what you don't know at that point.

37:53

Robert Paylor

Yeah. And. But getting like exceedingly more comfortable with it as I'm seeing the audience react and you know, they're laughing at all the right times. You know, I hit like these really intense moments. Like I talk about the moment of my injury, you know, like you could hear a pin drop like that saying, yeah, like at the top of its glory. Wow.

38:13

Dave Almy

Yeah, wow. Yeah.

38:14

Robert Paylor

Amazing. People are crying at the end, standing ovation coming up to me afterwards, confiding in me what they're going through. I go back to my dorm room after that and I'm like, this is it.

38:26

Dave Almy

You found it.

38:27

Robert Paylor

This is it. Like, this is the gift that this injury gave me. Because when I couldn't play rugby anymore, I lost my purpose in my life. My purpose was in being an athlete. And I've always been an optimistic guy, but I knew I was never going to play rugby again. It just wasn't in the cards. But it was through sharing the story to help someone overcome what's challenging them, that purpose was not just replaced. I mean it was heightened. It was heightened the ability of an impact that I could make on others lives to where. Honestly, David, I mean, this might sound insane, but I wouldn't even trade in what happened to me.

39:03

Robert Paylor

I would not wish this away because I'd be wishing in a way away, an ability to make a positive impact on someone's life in a way that I wouldn't have had if I didn't break my neck. So it has not been an easy journey, but it got me here.

39:15

Dave Almy

Today, it's a remarkable thing to be sitting here listening to you say something akin to, this is the gift the injury gave me. And I'm assuming that there's going to be people listening to this who hear that and go, that's such a shocking statement. Right. The gift of the injury. But you saw firsthand and experienced firsthand it was up until that point, it's probably like, well, this is what the injury took for me.

39:47

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

39:49

Dave Almy

And now it became, oh, my God, this is what it's giving to me and having that. It's a boy. That's about as big a pivot as you can make.

39:59

Robert Paylor

It's huge. I mean, it's amazing how much this injury took from. Away from me, for sure. And like a huge variety of things too, that I can't do anymore. And when you. If I were to, like, list them all out, the things that this injury gave me, it wouldn't be much. I'm really struggling to think in my mind more than just this one thing to help others overcome what challenges them. But I wouldn't wish it away. And there's interactions I've had with people who are battling stage four cancer or they have als, or they battle suicidal ideations, or they just lost a loved one, a son or a daughter, and they're confiding in me how? Through my perseverance and positivity. Through it all, I'm helping them overcome that. And these aren't just texts here and there too.

40:43

Robert Paylor

It's like face to face interactions with a lot of these folks as well. I'm just like, do I want to walk again? Hell yeah. I work at that every single day and I believe it's going to happen. But do I wish that this never happened to me? Absolutely not. I'd be wishing away an ability to impact folks like that. And it's so true. Like, you just have one of those conversations and you start to realize, wow, there is so much power that's within this.

41:07

Dave Almy

From that initial speech you did at still going to choke on this, Professor Fuld's class, you refined your message quite a bit and you went on to deliver keynotes for companies like intel and Samsung and Visa and Meta and a bunch of others. At what point did you start to think this needs to be written, like, this needs to be a book? How did that begin for you?

41:36

Robert Paylor

Yeah, yeah. You know, I've been working on this book for a while, so I. It was after I did. I did a couple internships with intel over in the Sacramento area. Folsom, where I live, they got a big campus there, and I was an operations intern. They were having some operational difficulties at the time and asked if I would come in and speak to their entire north and South American operations group. So when you're like, intern, bottom of the totem pole, that's intimidating to go into an environment like that. I mean, I was like, you want.

42:06

Dave Almy

Me to speak to everybody?

42:08

Robert Paylor

Everybody? And I was thinking, like, oh, boy. I was nervous about this. What? It's one thing to speak to, like, 40 college students, and it's another. Do you know you're talking to, like, senior vice presidents and stuff like that. People where it's like, no, you need to be giving me advice. And. And this one was like, 40, 45 minute speech. So I was really getting in there. But it was the same reaction. It's like laughing, crying, standing ovation. They're like, robert, you were doing a great job on our supply chain, but you should really think about this as a career. And that really. That planted that seed.

42:42

Dave Almy

Talents are wasted on supply chain.

42:44

Robert Paylor

. And it was in a great year.: 2020

42:52

Dave Almy

Yeah. Wonderful.

42:53

Robert Paylor

Oh, my gosh. I'm like, this is the worst time to launch a public speaking career ever. Right. But. Or opened up some time. Yeah. Or write a book.

43:02

Dave Almy

And let's talk about the book. So the book is paralyzed to powerful.

43:05

Robert Paylor

That's right.

43:06

Dave Almy

Lessons from a Quadriplegics Journey. I'm wondering, when writing the book, which of the parts came easiest? Where did you flow in the writing of it? And then what were some of the parts that you really had to. Boy, this is going to be a. This is a challenge to get through, but we're going to get there, like, in the. In the creation process.

43:25

Robert Paylor

You know, so much of it was honestly easy because, you know, it's like, it's my life. It's just. It's what I've lived. It's these principles that I hold so close to my heart and really want to share with others. The most difficult ones that I wrote was the one on forgiveness, because I needed to appropriately express that rage that I had internally. But it was not. At no point do I want this to be like a hit piece on the guy.

43:53

Dave Almy

Yeah, I am. No, it's a delicate balance.

43:54

Robert Paylor

Yeah. But I wanted to describe what I was going through and how significant it was for me to overcome that. But I didn't want to have it, like, as some act of revenge against him. I really do forgive him. I really do wish him well. And then the other one was a chapter on USA Rugby's investigation of my injury. After what happened, they actually came out with a report and tried to blame it on me. I'm saying that my head was below my shoulder level, completely negating the fact that I was torqued into that position. That was another really difficult chapter for me to write because I forgive those people as well, but needed to point out that for whatever reason, national governing bodies don't always do the right thing. And in moments like that, we have to take a stand.

44:36

Robert Paylor

We have to stand up for our values. Those were some really difficult chapters for me to write, but really important. And because there's a lot of lessons in there for us as leaders and as individuals, and forgiveness. But I'm happy with the way that it went. And in this whole thing, I didn't want it just to be about me, too. I wanted it to really be about those takeaways. And as I've started to get comments here from people reading the book, I think that's what I've been most pleased to see is they said, I came into here just expecting to learn more about Robert's journey, but I really learned more about myself. And that just puts such a huge smile on my face.

45:06

Dave Almy

Well, and that is also part of the book, too. It's not that it does include your story, but it also has elements that require you to reflect on your own personal experience. You help guide people towards examining their own challenges, their own paralysis. So it does read as something a bit more than just a narrative, per se. And I'm assuming that was intentional just from how the book was structured.

45:34

Robert Paylor

Very much so, yeah. Striking that balance between sharing the story, which I think is very powerful. But those takeaways really clearly because we all have something that paralyzes us, right? I mean, think grief, anxiety, fear of failure. There's a litany of things that can hold us back on that mental, emotional perspective. I really want people to spend time thinking about what paralyzes them. And then each chapter of the book is a tool that's helped me in my journey, all while guiding the story along pretty chronologically. So I really wanted those personal takeaways to come through.

46:07

Dave Almy

So one of the things you write is that I'm quoting you here, it says, let me see if I can actually read it. While paralysis may rob us of our abilities, it all holds the key to Our liberation. It's only when we confront our innermost hardships that we begin to release their grip on our lives and forge a path towards empowerment. Now, this was a hard one lesson for you.

46:33

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

46:34

Dave Almy

And it's a really powerful statement. And I'm wondering if you have examples of people and you. I think you've touched upon a few of them as we've been talking of others that have heard that message about confronting their own limitations that have also awakened that back in you. Like people that have heard you speak or have read the book that have heard that you take away and going, oh, my God, that is. That's why I do this.

47:01

Robert Paylor

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think, number one, just asking that question, what paralyzes you is so important. I don't think we spend a lot of time thinking about that. I think we ought to have that mental inventory of thinking of what's really holding us back. Because like you said throughout that quote, I mean, we really have to go deep and identify those things that hold us back most to be free from our lives. It's not something that can be ignored if we want to perform our best. And, you know, one example that just, like, immediately comes to mind was a person who I met at a speech who had recently gone through a divorce.

47:33

Robert Paylor

And, you know, of course, incredibly emotional, difficult time in this woman's life, and was just telling me, like, how held back she was by this hatred she had in her heart, by how much her life was changing around her. Just everything she knew and could hold is just like something that she could take for granted was. Was really kind of crumbling away. And that this ability to persevere, this perspective and journey and forgiveness was really already helping her see things so differently and start to see that path toward empowerment that she can achieve in her life, knowing that it's going to be a journey. Because I say in this book, too, this is not a quick fix. And I can't just share a few words and make challenges.

48:19

Dave Almy

There are no magic phrases.

48:21

Robert Paylor

No, there isn't. No. It's a daily decision that we make multiple times a day to keep persevering forward. But I was so happy to see how this story and this message has helped lay that path out for her. So that's one example of just the many ways that I think this. This has impact because we all have something that challenges us. It's just also individual. But I really tried to make it to where you can insert what you're going through into that book.

48:47

Dave Almy

If you can talk a Little bit about the book and your experience. I think you even say this at one point. It's like you want this to be more than just inspirational.

48:55

Robert Paylor

Yeah.

48:55

Dave Almy

Right. And I've heard that from other people that I've had an opportunity to talk with other para athletes who've had experiences like, say, working out at the gym and having people approach them and say, feeling compelled to say something like, oh, my God, you're so inspired. I'm so inspired by you and that kind of being like a. I'm really just a person in here working out. And I understand that. But with that in mind, being more than inspirational, at the end of the day, what do you want people to take away when they've had a chance to read this book? What's the outcome that you want for people?

49:32

Robert Paylor

Yeah, I want them to use it. You know, I. I've heard a lot of stories like that where people with, you know, spinal cord injury or maybe like, a very visible mobility impairment will just kind of be going through their life. Someone will come up to them and say, like, you are so inspirational. And it rubs them the wrong way. They don't love it. They're like. Like you said, I'm just trying to.

49:49

Dave Almy

Live my life, just trying to do my thing.

49:50

Robert Paylor

Yeah. Just treat me like anyone. I'll be honest. I love it. Okay.

49:54

Dave Almy

Yeah.

49:54

Robert Paylor

I eat it up. I don't know. I have a huge ego or something. I mean, no, it's like, you know, I don't. I don't want people to ignore what I've gone through. I think, like, it's. It's the greatest source of my strength and power that I have in my life. Just my ability to overcome this. Of course, my body is so much weaker now, but it's through that I've really had to strengthen my mind and share inspiration with others. So if I never heard anybody tell me that I've inspired them, everything I would go through in my life would just be more difficult. Like, every second of my life is harder now, but it's being able to know that this is inspiring others, that gift really comes through.

50:31

Robert Paylor

So, personal thing, I don't recommend you go up to everybody and tell them how inspirational they are.

50:35

Dave Almy

It's not. This is not a green light to go up to just say who inspires them.

50:39

Robert Paylor

But if you see Robert Taylor, if you see me, go for it, I love it. But beyond that, I want to see, like, tangible differences in someone's life. That's where the proof really shows that this made an impact on someone. There needs to be measurable things that we can track of the way that we're living our lives differently because of inspiration like this. So I don't want somebody to read this book and say, robert's awesome. I want them to read this book and say, like, I learned this. This is what I'm going to change. These are the tools I'm going to start using in my life and share it with my family, share with my friends, my coworkers, and my team to just make a more positive impact on the world. It's that ripple effect that I really want to see.

51:18

Dave Almy

I'm with Robert Paler. He is the author of Paralyzed to Lessons from a Quadriplegics Journey. Robert, thank you very much for sharing everything in today. I'm not going to say it was inspirational because clearly we don't want to necessarily touch that third rail, but I mean, it's such an important and compelling conversation to hear from you, and so I appreciate that. But before I let you go, you just brought up the ability to sharpen your mind. And so we're going to put that to the test in the Lightning round.

51:49

Robert Paylor

Let's do it.

51:50

Dave Almy

y National Championship since: 2017

52:10

Robert Paylor

Oh, my gosh. Like, way to keep the. This, this legendary program going. It is not easy, but you're making such an impact on us players who played before you and those players who are coming after. So, so much pride for that team.

52:23

Dave Almy

Very good. All right. Rugby, like soccer, is famous for both team and fan chants and songs. Do you have a favorite and is it repeatable on a family friendly podcast?

52:37

Robert Paylor

No. You know, our USA chance are so bad. Like, the only thing we know is usa so you gotta hop over the pod for stuff like that. I love England Sings Swing Low Sweet Chariot I think it's just so cool. You know, we're talking, like traditions that are spanning just hundreds of years. I think that's a really cool aspect about the sport.

52:56

Dave Almy

Our mutual friend Solly Fulp wrestled in college and is semi famous for his green singlet and tights. What famous fantasy character did he look like? And why is it Peter Pan?

53:11

Robert Paylor

All he needs is the hat.

53:12

Dave Almy

It would just be undeniable I mean, it's just. It would be just like. Like he just emerged from the forest kind of thing. Exactly.

53:19

Robert Paylor

I haven't seen that picture. We need to. We need to get that.

53:21

Dave Almy

We'll have to get that from him. All right, so last one, you're a competitive guy as you establish, and I'm pretty sure you've got a definitive answer to this question. What's the top speed you've hit in the chair?

53:33

Robert Paylor

Oh, man. So these hills in Berkeley are pretty mean, you know, they're pretty mean. And of course, when I'm going uphill, that's a different story. But going down.

53:42

Dave Almy

Going down.

53:43

Robert Paylor

Got my gloves on.

53:45

Dave Almy

Do you have, like the, like when the speed trap signs, do you ever click onto those and like, say, oh.

53:50

Robert Paylor

Boy, just slow down? Yeah, I'd be. I wouldn't be shocked if I've hit like 15 miles an hour, maybe.

53:57

Dave Almy

Maybe pretty racy there, Mr. Paler.

54:01

Robert Paylor

We'll get that speed gun out there and test it out.

54:04

Dave Almy

Robert Paler, author of Paralyzed to Powerful Lessons from a Quadriplegic Journey. Really appreciate the time today.

54:09

Robert Paylor

Thank you so much, David. This is so much fun.