Harnessing the USA Soccer Boom: Justin Papadakis, Deputy CEO of the United Soccer League

00:00

Justin Papadakis

This is Justin Papadakis, Deputy CEO and Chief Real Estate Officer of USL, and I'm on the Sports Business Conversations podcast presented by ADC Partners.

00:25

Dave Almy

Hey, this is Dave Almy of ADC Partners, and appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule to check out this latest episode of the Sports Business Conversations podcast. Last I looked, there were about, I don't know, four and a half million podcasts out there. That's a whole lot of podcasts. So the fact that you stopped by here means a lot, so thank you. I don't know if you noticed or not, but soccer's having a bit of a moment here in the US The MLS continues to grow. Messi came to play in Miami. The US Women are literally the gold standard, and a lot of Americans became fully vested in a Welsh town called Wrexham. So go figure. Few people know more about this growth than this episode's guest, Justin Papadakis, the deputy CEO and Chief Real Estate Officer for the United Soccer League.

01:14

Dave Almy

urchased the USL from Nike in: 2009

02:10

Dave Almy

At what point did the business side of the sport start to attract your attention from the competitive side of the sport?

02:21

Justin Papadakis

Well, I'll take you back a little bit. So as. As you said, you know, my. My dad was a really good player, but before that, you know, my dad came from a really poor family in Greece, and they had. They happened to. Wanted to try to get a better life, so they immigrated over to Canada. And. And so, you know, he didn't have a lot going for him. You know, he didn't have any money, didn't speak the language, you know, new country. But. But he happened to be a great soccer player, which got him into a high school, which got him into a college, which Then got him into a law school because he could coach the soccer team on the side. And so ended up having soccer really.

02:58

Dave Almy

Turned to the key as a key that turned a lot of locks for him.

03:01

Justin Papadakis

It did. So he ended up having a great career. So for me growing up, soccer had this power to change lives. And certainly I had it pretty easy growing up because of what soccer did for him.

03:16

Dave Almy

Yeah, but that's such an interesting message. Right? It was so much more than just a game for your family. This was the. This was the tool that kind of opened doors.

03:25

Justin Papadakis

and I happened to be in LA in: 2008

03:34

Dave Almy

All right.

03:34

Justin Papadakis

And so we said, wow, like, even in a major city like la, this area of LA had really lot of problems, you know, just turning the corner. It needed a catalyst. That catalyst happened to be LA Live. And so since then, because of the stadium anchored district concept, which really wasn't a thing at that time, you had this amazing development. And so we said, wow, if this is the power we can do in la, what if we can take this and do it for soccer all across the country.

04:07

Dave Almy

Yeah. You have this interesting kind of point where you saw how soccer transformed and was transformative for your family. Now you have this moment where it's like, boy, this can actually be transformative for an entire community.

04:23

Justin Papadakis

Exactly. So we said, if we can give back to the game that gave us so much and bring massive economic development to our cities and create thousands of opportunities for players, coaches, front office staff, and contribute to growing the game of soccer in the United States. That was really powerful for us because it was our way to give back. And there was a lot of work that, you know, that we knew would have to execute on that, but that was the start of it. And we've come a long way since then.

05:04

Dave Almy

Yeah, I was going to say: 2009

05:38

Justin Papadakis

So my dad had two kind of key strategies for how to, how to execute. First was were Going to break out of the major minor league construct that existed in American sports. So you had Major League baseball and you have minor league baseball in Europe. The Bundesliga is not a minor league to the Premier League. It's just another league for the American context. You know, I think the most, the closest analogies would be the SEC and the Big Ten. Right. One's not above the other. They're just two different leagues. The other innovation that my dad came up with was that we would go out as a league and structure these stadium deals over the next 15 years. And so stadium deals are very hard. They can take two years, they can take four years, they can take 10 years. They can never happen.

06:31

Justin Papadakis

You need all the stars to align.

06:34

Dave Almy

That's a pretty wide set of goal posts right there.

06:36

Justin Papadakis

Exactly. But because they're so hard, that's why we would have to do this at scale. So just for context, right now we're working on about 70 markets. They all won't happen again over 10 years. You have different mayors come in. You have different political climates, you have different economic climate.

06:57

Dave Almy

You got to plant a lot of seeds.

06:58

Justin Papadakis

You have to plant a lot of seeds. And we happen to have a very good batting average. To mix sports metaphors. And we, and we get pretty good at this.

07:08

Dave Almy

That's not going to be the last sports metaphor we mix today, but almost, I'm almost guaranteeing it.

07:13

Justin Papadakis

And so that, but that was a big change. No, no league has a real estate department. And so we have a large real estate department. And most importantly is over those 2, 5, 10 years, we really create great relationships with our city, county and state partners and with a local community about articulating the vision and the opportunity to bring these developments to their cities.

07:37

Dave Almy

This is such an interesting difference point for the USL versus what other professional sports leagues bring to the table, which usually say, okay, ownership group, you want to buy the franchise, here's the cost. You show us what you can do. From a financing and stadium construction standpoint. It feels like the USL is getting involved in this process at a much more fundamental level from helping all the stakeholders sort of bring it to the table. Is there a specific reason why that was important to the USL versus that model versus what? It's probably the more traditional quote unquote, I'm using air quotes right now model.

08:17

Justin Papadakis

So to build 30 stadiums in, you know, 10 years, to do it at the scale that we needed to do it at and to do it at the level that we needed to do at, to do it at really required a different approach.

08:36

Dave Almy

Yeah.

08:36

Justin Papadakis

And so land is there today, it's gone tomorrow and it requires a lot of at risk pre development capital to go. You know, option land architects, engineers, lobbyists. You need a, you need a fund. Yep. A lot of money and expertise to go do this. But then we thought if we could solve that portion of the equation over those years, USL would keep growing in value in terms of our team valuations and status within the sports landscape.

09:10

Dave Almy

Right. Sort of the asset application.

09:13

Justin Papadakis

Then most owners who want to invest in sports for some unknown reason, what they. They don't want to go through 10 years of entitlement hearings, which, you know that's not the fun part.

09:25

Dave Almy

You make it sound so much fun, Justin.

09:28

Justin Papadakis

I think it's fun. Most other people don't. Most other people don't think it's fun. So. But when we can deliver them a. Essentially a turnkey project with a great stadium with a lot of relationships built within the communities.

09:42

Dave Almy

Right.

09:44

Justin Papadakis

Yeah.

09:44

Dave Almy

That's much more quickly get them to.

09:47

Justin Papadakis

Yes. And then deliver them value for us. What we are building is a network of great stadiums because great stadium districts produce great fans and a league that has a lot of passionate fans is, you know, can be very successful. And so we've taken out, I think the hard part about the equation and then enabled our team owners to really focus on building brands and building clubs and so. And they've done a great job doing that.

10:17

Dave Almy

Can you talk a little bit about the concept of the stadium district for a minute? Because I think a lot of people, and particularly people of a certain age like myself, you know, they're used to seeing stadiums surrounded by parking lots and that's just not the way stadium projects work anymore. And it's interesting because you're you. One of your titles is chief real estate officer, which is fairly unique. Is there another league that has a similar title? I can't think of one off the top my head. But that idea of real estate development and stadium construction being more or less inseparable now in the community impact. So how does the USL advise potential ownership groups on that kind of stadium development and creating value for community in a way that benefits those communities?

11:08

Justin Papadakis

So what we spend a lot of time thinking about is the entire fan journey.

11:13

Dave Almy

Okay.

11:14

Justin Papadakis

And so unlike American football, for example, that has a tailgating culture, or unlike baseball where there's a lot of breaks in the action, which means a lot of the consumption happens within the game. And the game's also, you know, three hours or five Hours. Soccer does not have a tailgate culture. It's a two hour fixed window sport with one break in the middle. And so fans want to go consume, you know, part of their journey is eating and drinking before the game. And then because we have such a young demographic relative to baseball, for example, fans want to go out after the game. And so it's really important that we have the district so that fans can come do their entire fan journey with just leaving their car once.

12:03

Dave Almy

Do you find that's part of your education for ownership groups, that they don't have a fundamental understanding of soccer culture and how it differs from, I guess, the more traditional American quote, unquote, again using air quotes, again have to describe these, because this podcast, so it's an audio environment to that if there's a ramp up to people understanding that.

12:25

Justin Papadakis

So I think the concept of stadium anchored districts is becoming now kind of mainstream. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. Now with great developments like the Battery in Atlanta for the Braves or even at the practice facility, the Star in Dallas, which is where the Cowboys practice. But even there they built a district around it. And so I think it's becoming more now it's mainstream. But it did take some education. The other big, you know, really interesting thing was when I started full time with the league in January 15th, when I would go meet with our, you know, city mayor, city managers, they were baseball people. And then within a year or two, a amazing transformation happened where they started retiring and the new generation took over, which were soccer people. And so they played soccer, their kids play soccer.

13:32

Justin Papadakis

And so we haven't had a conversation. And again, we have a lot of data points working on 70 markets with a city that said, I don't know if soccer is going to work right like that. That conversation hasn't happened. And really excitingly too now when we introduced our women's professional properties, we haven't had one conversation that said, will women's soccer work? And so not only that, they said, yes, we want soccer, we want these stadium districts because they are the place making that we want for our downtown. And so I think that's a real testament to how far the stadium district concept has gone and how far professional soccer is gone. And again, we're still very early in the journey and you're going to see billions of dollars of announcements, you know, even over the next six months.

14:32

Dave Almy

You should probably just spring those right now, right? It's a podcast, right? This is big. This what a Great forum to make those announcements right now. Justin, I feel like there's been a sea change in what it means to be to own a sports franchise. You've been speaking quite a bit about the way the USL works with ownership groups and the support you give them. I mean owning a team used to be, let's call it a millionaire's plaything. It was gifted down from franchise owners to their kids and things like that. Now they're seen as investments for billionaires. And private equity is getting involved. As you think about since your time at the USL, how has that impacted the USL along with the expectations of these ownership groups for considering buying a USL franchise or beginning getting involved in one?

15:23

Justin Papadakis

I think you're exactly right. If you look back, you know, even as, you know, 10 years ago sports teams were kind of viewed as, you know, similar to a yacht. Right. It was a, it was a luxury asset. But very quickly that's changed. We've always had the approach that we want our owners to look at this as they do any other investments within their portfolio. It's an asset class now and now it has become part of an alternative asset allocation within their portfolio. And so I think really making that jump and making it a business. And so for us at the USL, you know, again, it's hard to compare directly with the NBA, NFL because even though this always was this, it wasn't always the case. Now they have so much TD money that it's a little bit different of a value proposition.

16:22

Justin Papadakis

But at USL, what our strategy has been was to say, okay, we are going to make the four walls work, right? Because if you the at the core of sports, it's ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, merchandise. If you can make that work, then add in media player transfer fees, which is a concept we can talk about in soccer, that's something unique, we think that makes a great franchise in Europe. I think what you're seeing a little bit is they've grown up on having media money there. So they haven't had to be a four wall positive business. I think it's kind of like when a country discovers oil, right? Like you don't have to grow your industrial base because you have this money coming in or you win the.

17:14

Dave Almy

Lot literally coming from the ground.

17:16

Justin Papadakis

Exactly. But when we said, when we looked at and said, okay, well we want to be great, you know, the foundation of the business has to be there. And then we also weren't going to approach the opportunity in sports by trying to be a star driven league. Star driven leagues do Work the NFL, the NBA, but you have to have all of the stars. And so what we wanted to build is a brand driven league. Brands don't get hurt, they don't retire, they don't, you know, they don't have to get traded. Right. You know, whatever. And so if we could build strong brands and then wrap them within a stadium anchor district, you combine your traditional asset class of real estate with your alternative asset of sports.

18:03

Justin Papadakis

But they're very, you know, they're, they, they work together so well because yeah, if you have a successful district that makes it easier to sell tickets, you don't need a star player, which again can get hurt or whatever. The, the, it's easier to sell a ticket when people want to come down to your district already.

18:24

Dave Almy

I think it's a very interesting point. From the standpoint of what does the average NFL team get from a payout from their media deals. I think it's like 350, $400 million a year before they even sell a single ticket. Right. So when you have that, your focus is away from the four walls in creating a unique and potent fan experience. And so for up and coming leagues like the USL, it's really incumbent upon the franchises to concentrate on creating that amazing fan journey which you touched on the amazing fan experience within the games to make sure that they may not have a real close familiarization with the players on the field. They may still be learning the players on the field, but the experience itself is what draws them in.

19:05

Dave Almy

And that's a differentiator for what I think a lot of entertainment properties are thinking right now. More media driven.

19:12

Justin Papadakis

And so, yes, and then we added again, this is what my dad, you know, he said early on and I didn't even see the power of it until we announced it recently with promotion relegation.

19:26

Dave Almy

Yeah, we're gonna, we want to talk about that for sure.

19:29

Justin Papadakis

And so what? And again, when you think about how to get fans interested in your product and how to differentiate from other sports product. So we start with having a great fan journey, with having a great district, but then having the promotion relegation, what it does is it creates matches of consequence.

19:52

Dave Almy

So let's do this. Justin, before we get into the why it makes sense, I just want to make sure, because there may be some people listening who aren't as familiar with promotion relegation as we are. So can you do first of all a quick explanation on what that means and then let's get into the why it makes sense at this point in time.

20:11

Justin Papadakis

Sure. So the concept of promotional relegation Is that a certain number of teams go up and down at every season. So you have a playoff at the top and a playoff at the bottom. And so we're going to have three tiers. So if you're at one or the middle, you can go up or you can go down and then every season you have a chance to move up or stay up.

20:35

Dave Almy

So I think the analog, the easiest analog to make is like this is a, AAA baseball team winning out and getting promoted to Major League baseball team in the bottom of Major League Baseball, Colorado Rockies I'm looking at, you would be playing in the minor leagues in, in, in AAA the following year. And it could work at both ends of that scale.

20:54

Justin Papadakis

That, that's the American analogy. We, we don't position ourselves as minor league, but the analogy is correct. And so what happens with that structure and to differentiate. Everyone loves, you know, the March Madness. Everyone loves, you know, October in baseball. Right. Because it's the playoffs.

21:19

Dave Almy

So to your point, matches of consequence, magic.

21:21

Justin Papadakis

But the playoffs, those only for the top, you know, X number of teams, the rest of the teams go home. Right. So you kind of know halfway through the season or 60% through the season if your team's in playoff contention, you know, you're interested if it's not what it, you know, the, in the American system, the only thing that's interesting is what draft pick are they going to get. Right? I mean how much they can lose to get a lower draft pick. Which is the sandbag. Yeah. So it's not a great fan dynamic when you're thinking about sport in that context. And so in promotion, relegation, whether you're in the playoff at the top or playoff at the bottom, every game has a consequence. And so in a lot of times the bottom playoff is more exciting than the top.

22:15

Justin Papadakis

And so that's what we thought about how to really structure the league to create these matches of consequence. And I think again using another American sport analogy, like a lot of fans might not watch the University of Houston basketball team on the regular, but when they're in March Madness, they're watching them because there's so much on the line, even though you don't know the players like you don't, you know, you didn't go to University of Houston, but there's a lot on the line. And so that's where I think there's a real opportunity. And besides the NFL, the only in the NBA, the Yankees sports is generally a home and away media product. But with promotional Relegation, I think it is the one opportunity to crack that national audience, to create a national product again, just like March Madness has done with basketball.

23:12

Dave Almy

So I think one of the reasons why promotional relegation has never really taken foot with other American sports is ownership groups are like, hell, I'm going to let you send my billion dollar franchise down to another league or something like that. What was your interaction with franchise owners and participants as promotion, relegation got rolled out? Was there kind of a baseline understanding that this was going to be positive? I mean, you'd see things like, welcome to Wrexham. And it's all. The story is basically all about promotion, relegation. So I saw the benefit of it, the excitement that can be driven around it. Or was there some concern too?

23:50

Justin Papadakis

So there's always a definite concern, right? You love promote, you can love the promotion of the. You just don't want to get relegated. Yeah, yeah. But we worked really closely with our owners and did a lot of statistical analysis around sports around the world to show how we could capture the benefits of promotional relegation. The intrigue of the fan, whether they're going, the increase of attendance in those relegation matches, the increase in viewership for the promotion, relegation matches, the just interest from corporate partners about being part of this, you know, novel concept within the United States. Same thing for media partners. And so we work closely with them and just showed how can we differentiate from the MLS in a sustainable way that creates a lot of intrigue into the product.

24:52

Justin Papadakis

And I think promotion, relegation was really that tool that we came to, you know, with in consultation with our owners, that this is how USL can be a national product, exciting for fans and deliver, deliver a lot of value in terms of economic value for our franchises. But also, you know, again, how do you make it a league that players want to play in?

25:22

Dave Almy

Right?

25:22

Justin Papadakis

Players, they want to play when there's a lot on the line, right? Like that is why they play the game. Fans, they want to come because there's a lot on the line. If we can, if that's our starting point, then we can build from there what we don't have. As much as I'd love, you know, a big media deal and we'll get to that in, know, the next couple years. But media is not 60% of our revenue, right? So if you do go down, you're not lo. You're not financially devastated. And then we started this year with the Interleague cup. And so even if you do go down, you're still playing against your regional rivals.

26:05

Dave Almy

The landing is softer, the landing is.

26:08

Justin Papadakis

Softer and the next year you can go back up.

26:12

Dave Almy

So promotional relegation is just one thing that's happened now. It's a big thing. Like I don't want to understate it, this is a big thing. It's unique in particularly American sports. I absolutely understand what you're saying. It has that dynastism that's going to make like field storming moments for last place teams right when they avoid relegation or be able to come up or move up or things like that. So I really see that's going to be something that's really powerful and fun to talk about. Like people are going to get interested in that. But it's far from the only thing that USL is doing. Like we recently launched Division 1, which something referred to as a defining moment for USL and the future of soccer in the United States.

26:50

Dave Almy

Can you talk a little bit about the launch of Division one and what the expectations are for the USL and how that's going to impact it.

27:00

Justin Papadakis

So again when we thought about Pro rail, one of the ways to really amplify it was to have three tiers because then you have, it's not just you're going up or going down, like you can go up twice. And so it really create, you know, double the amount of intrigue so to speak that you could have. That's part one. Part two was there definitely is a cachet associated especially in United States with being Division one and that being a benchmark for this. The Lydia in between major and minor, they're just an association between Division one and major. And thirdly, we are building stadiums that meet U.S. Soccer's requirement for Division 1.

27:48

Justin Papadakis

And so if we are meeting the standards and there's certainly, you know, our stadiums will compare to, I would compare to anywhere around the world out, you know, you take out the big five teams from you know, England and Spain and, and Germany. Our stadiums are certainly comparable. Our revenues, you know, on a four wall basis can be comparable. Our cities from a population corporate base are much larger. And so we are, we meet Division one, we should go be Division one. And so, and there's a lot of technical reasons in soccer where you know, you can get promoted, you can qualify for the FIFA Club World cup. You come in a different place in the Open Cup. So some like other technical reasons why it matters but most importantly it was, you know, we met the criteria. So why not meeting the criteria.

28:49

Dave Almy

Creating more bandwidth for promotion, relegation, it just sort of seems to fit it's like the Lego piece that you fit in the last one that goes in to make the entire picture completely complete.

28:58

Justin Papadakis

Exactly.

28:59

Dave Almy

So Division 1 women's sports you brought up previoUSLy, women's soccer and the Gainbridge Super League is a relatively new entry into the USL's portfolio. I'm assuming there has been tremendous interest. You launched with eight teams, several more market. A lot of more markets coming online in just next year or two. So with the rapid expansion of interest in women's sports, how do we, as the USL, we. Look at me, I'm getting so excited. I'm making myself part of the whole endeavor. How do you create distinction with the other professional women's soccer league like the nwsl? Is that a competitive environment? Is there enough room for both of these leagues to compete? How is that currently fitting into what your operations are like?

29:44

Justin Papadakis

So from a starting point, I'd say women's sports and certainly women's soccer. The. The hurdle hasn't been the quality of talent on the field. It's been a dramatic lack of putting these amazing women athletes on the same quality stage as their male counterparts. If you take the Cowboys and put them in a high school stadium, it doesn't feel like the Cowboys anymore. And certainly from a. It was an impossible situation because if you're not in a proper stadium, you can't create the revenues, which means you can't create the. The game experience, which means you can't create the. The fan experience. Right.

30:33

Dave Almy

So it was just chicken uphill on a slippery slope.

30:36

Justin Papadakis

Exactly. And so now what these, you know, amazing athletes have shown, if you put them on an equivalent stage, fans will certainly come support them in the same numbers. Corporate partners will support them in the same numbers. And actually, you know, more in a lot of cases. And it's a great media product. We have the benefit in the United States that our American women are the gold standard, you know, maybe similar to the Brazilian or Argentinian men. And so we have the best talent here. There was before we started the Super League, there were, I think, 40,000 college players and there were, you know, 250 positions available.

31:24

Dave Almy

Not so many playing opportunities.

31:26

Justin Papadakis

Not so many playing opportunities. And so we are going to dramatically increase that. And what's a little challenging with the sport too is you need the entire ecosystem to rise at the same time. You need the players, the coaches, the facilities, the media partners, the corporate partners. You need all the referee. Like you need the whole ecosystem rise at the same time. And so the NWSL has done a great job. We are approaching the opportunity a little bit differently. And some, you know, again, our season's different. We are going to be in a lot more cities than, than they are.

32:07

Justin Papadakis

So when you can see when little girls can go to the game, go to their stadium and say, you know, if I, you know, miss some parties and work as hard as my brother, I can be on Peacock on NBC just like the boys can, right? Playing very powerful, playing the same stadium. Right. And so that is a mission that's really important for us. I have a year and a half year old daughter. I want her to go say, you know, if I want to be a professional player or I want to be a president of a team or a league, there's going to be hundreds of opportunities on and off the field for my daughter.

32:44

Justin Papadakis

Just like, you know, all the other little girls across the United States that they can reach the pinnacle of a true professional league and sport in here in the United States. So it's. We've also taken a little bit different approach again than the NSO where we have a full pyramid. So from our academy to our pre pro, which is essentially the top college players during the summer up to professional, we are going to be, you know, the largest fully. We are the largest fully integrated women's to girls professional pyramid. And it's something that is core to our mission of being a community club because communities want to support their male athletes just like their women's athletes.

33:30

Dave Almy

With everything that's going on, everything we've talked about, growth of Division 1 women's soccer is exploding. Commercial stadium opportunities that you're building. I'm assuming you have to get approached by ownership groups on a more than regular basis. Right. Sports, like we talked about early on, it's like becoming an investment class. Lots of people looking to get in. And the USL seems to represent this. The opportunity to do so that's kind of unique. So as you think, how do you determine like who can be an effective ownership group? Are there things that stand out from you other than just having all the financial backing? Right. Are the things that separate viable groups from ones that are kind of the wannabes in your mind? Because it's gotta happen all the time.

34:18

Justin Papadakis

So as you said, I think very appropriately having the money is, you know, it's necessarily necessary, but certainly not sufficient.

34:29

Dave Almy

Right.

34:29

Justin Papadakis

What we really tried one part of the equation, but what we actually really prioritize more is having a group because we want to make our clubs community clubs. And when you have actual, not just interest, but financial Interests from a lot of the business leaders within the community. That creates a stronger opportunity for our teams to be very successful because we have owners in cities from that have different background, they're in different sectors, they have different relationships, they have different skill sets. But what they have in common is they feel really passionately about building these clubs. And so I think that's what we really look for. There's a lot, I would say the significant majority of our team owners have a strong connection to their community.

35:22

Justin Papadakis

What I hear from them a lot is, you know, again, they really like the track record of our team asset appreciation. But when they're thinking about their investment dollars, they can go invest in a warehouse, you know, somewhere and you know, done in their community, out of their community. It doesn't have the multiple multiplying factor that a sports team does because the sports team is a community asset. It has, it opens doors for them within their current businesses. So it helps them financially. But more important is it's really a community asset and one that they can have that multiplying factor by being part of a stadium anchor development, by having their players, you know, work with the young kids, by being in the schools, by being in the hospitals.

36:09

Justin Papadakis

That's what there is really not a lot of other investment options that have that type of community impact and financial results that having your sales team does.

36:22

Dave Almy

So there's this other professional soccer organization in the United States that gets a little bit of attention to. Is it, would you call it a rivalry with mls? Do you just occupy completely different spaces within the market? Do you keep an eye on what they're doing? Do you focus specifically on what you're doing? What's that relationship like on your day to day basis?

36:45

Justin Papadakis

Well, I think we have great personal relationships with everyone at the mls from Don all the way down. We share a same mission, which is to grow the game of soccer. We approach it differently, but we have the same mission. And again, I would include the NWSL in that as well. We focus on, you know, we have kind of two different categories of teams. I say in most of our markets we're the top level of soccer. And in Omaha and Greenville and then where we have teams competing in the same market, I don't actually view them as rivals because we're approaching. So take Los Angeles for example. We, we have a new team starting in the Antelope Valley, which is again part of the greater Los Angeles area.

37:45

Justin Papadakis

But we think that, you know, community, the, it's a submarket of la, that we can deliver a lot more value by having a team local there than just having. There's a. Not everyone in LA can drive two hours to go to a game or has $200 a ticket. That's not, you know.

38:07

Dave Almy

And so people listen to LA right now. Two hours to drive 10 miles or they start to understand. So thank God you have a team in Antelope Valley.

38:15

Justin Papadakis

And so. And you can see again, even though this. The team just started, how much passion and excitement that we're building the team around the identity of the av.

38:25

Dave Almy

Yeah.

38:26

Justin Papadakis

Which.

38:27

Dave Almy

Something to call their own.

38:28

Justin Papadakis

Something to call the room. And so I think you'll see that, you know, most recently in Dallas, where our Men's Athletico, Dallas, you know, they had hundreds or thousands of people at their brand launch. They're building a new $70 million training center. So it's. It's happening all across the country. But at the end of the day, we want the MLS to do great because, you know, we want their team values keep going up. We want them. They. They are a big part of soccer in the United States. And again, we share the same. The same mission, which is to grow the game. And if we can do that together, then we're successful.

39:08

Dave Almy

So as we wrap up, as you start to think about what's getting you excited about, there was so much going on and growth happening so quickly in so many different markets, 70 different projects happening. And at this moment, where are you most excited about where things are headed? Are there things that you in the development of the league that get you up out of bed in the morning and think, this is. I can't wait for that thing to happen or see how that evolves.

39:40

Justin Papadakis

Without a doubt, for me, what keeps me motivated is seeing a new club launch and seeing the relationships that we form over multiple years, seeing the billions of dollars of economic impact that's going to our cities and to have a, you know, to play a part in that alongside growing this game Again from, you know, we talked about beginning. That's what gave my family the opportunity in life was soccer.

40:16

Justin Papadakis

And so to be part of that, hopefully, if we do our job correctly, for thousands of other people, whether they have a restaurant next to one of our stadiums or they're a player that got to play in the academy, that moved their way up to the first team or someone that is really good in graphic design that, you know, is able and that loves soccer and is able to work at the front office and have a career rather than a job, that is what is Our mission, that's what my dad's vision has been since he bought the league back in late 08 09. And I think that we are executing on that very well. And the most fun part is that we are still very early on in our journey to build out first class clubs all across the country.

41:12

Justin Papadakis

And so it's an exciting time to be in the sport and you know, we're grateful to be part of the game of soccer's growth in the United States.

41:23

Dave Almy

So I'm with Justin Pavadakis. He is the deputy CEO and chief real estate officer for the USL. Justin, I appreciate the time and I'd end it there, but I got to put you in the Lightning round.

41:33

Justin Papadakis

Let's do it.

41:34

Dave Almy

All right. Very confident. We'll see how this goes. Because this is challenging stuff. No, I'm going to start with softball. I'm going to start with softball for you because that's the kind of nice host that I am. You played goalie for Duke. Would you have any thoughts on shutting out arch rival North Carolina three times in two seasons as the goalie? Have any warm feelings in the cockles of your heart you want to share?

41:55

Justin Papadakis

Well, we definitely don't have a lot of love for the Tar Heels. Amazing in my family. But you know, again, I would say Duke, along with other schools, maybe even including Chapel Hill, they play a huge role in soccer in the United States. And you know, I have a lot of friends and teammates that, you know, played at the highest level and now are still involved with a game from.

42:25

Dave Almy

So you can all just get along actually in the front office.

42:28

Justin Papadakis

Whatever we, we can. So it's, you know, it's a critical part of the soccer ecosystem and one that again we're happy to support primarily through our League 2 and W pre professional programs.

42:42

Dave Almy

What's the best. Or let's put. What's your favorite USL mascot?

42:48

Justin Papadakis

Oh, that's tough.

42:51

Dave Almy

You know, I'll give you a, I'll give you some grace here. You can have more than one.

42:54

Justin Papadakis

Well, I think one of the most controversial slash interesting would be from our League two side in Portland, the Portland Bangers. And so if your, your listeners Bangers and Mash, it's a. Oh yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's a dish. So I would go say go look up the Portland Bangers. And that has to be one of the most, I think gonna be one of the most talked about.

43:24

Dave Almy

My sister lives up in Portland. I'm sure to be able to go get some merch here than not do this in future. Your dad played professionally in ASL in the 70s. Who would have the upper hand in a penalty shootout between the two of you?

43:36

Justin Papadakis

So definitely my dad. My dad was a great player. I was a good player with a great coach. So that would definitely. I'd be on the short end of that one.

43:46

Dave Almy

Okay, fair enough. The old man gets the nod. Last one. What would have been your dad's reaction if you told me you wanted to play American football?

43:55

Justin Papadakis

Well, that would be tough. In our family, the. The. The first.

44:00

Dave Almy

Maybe an understatement.

44:01

Justin Papadakis

The first soccer practice for my kids, for my. My niece and nephew is. Is close to, you know, a religious experience. Yeah. And so the photos are framed. The entire extended family comes down, which makes it a little awkward with all of our other parents that, you know, it's just another Saturday.

44:28

Dave Almy

Papadakis is on the sideline.

44:29

Justin Papadakis

Yeah. And so it's. It's one of these special days in our family's lives. The first soccer practice.

44:37

Dave Almy

Justin Papadakis, Deputy CEO and Chief Real Estate Officer for the USL. Really appreciate the time. Thanks so much.

44:42

Justin Papadakis

Thank you.