Investing in Collège Sports: Jonathan Marks, Chief Business Officer College and Global Marketplace for Elevate

:: 01:30

Jonathan, you started Dynamic Pricing Partners in 2009, and that was kind of your first real foray into sports business right up until the time it was acquired by Elevate in 2021. So let's get started. So if you could give a little bit of background on Dynamic Pricing Partners, launching the company through its acquisition, like what in your mind were some of the memorable moments, things of key periods along the way for you?

:: 02:02

Yeah, well, first off, thank you, Dave, very much for having me join the podcast today. Excited to share the story. If I look back and I'm sitting in New York City right now where kind of everything all began. I started in finance in 2008 during the financial crisis. That's awesome.

:: 02:24

awesome. That was good timing.

:: 02:25

That was good timing. Exactly. In real estate securitization, which is also what took down the entire market.

:: 02:32

Really, really did. It was your fault, wasn't it?

:: 02:34

Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much my fault. So I look back, I caused all of it. Three days into my job, I get a call from HR and they give me a couple options. One is to move to investment banking. One is equity sales. And one is take a severance. I just signed. Three days. Yes. Three days. Yep.

:: 02:51

Three days.

:: 02:54

Yeah. And I just signed a two -year lease. I was still paying student loans. And so my only option was, sure, I'll do either investment banking or equity sales.

:: 02:57

still paying student

:: 03:05

Literally whatever is going to help me pay for this lease.

:: 03:08

Exactly. Exactly.

:: 03:09

Exactly.

:: 03:10

Went to equity sales. I met a gentleman there named Peter Sauer who one day said, hey, you should buy Ole Miss and New York Jets football tickets. And I was like, hmm, I didn't know what that meant. But sure, I had no money but put five grand on my credit card, made a thousand bucks. And I think the rest is relatively history as far as how it all began. Because that was your first insight into ticket marketing and pricing strategy,

:: 03:32

that was your first insight into ticket marketing and pricing strategy, literally just putting $5 ,000 worth of tickets on your credit card.

:: 03:40

Correct. I had no idea what we were doing or what I was doing. And everything was so manual back then. Oh, my God. You were, you know, shipping a physical ticket. You were literally still little pieces of cardboard at that point.

:: 03:50

You were literally still little pieces of cardboard at that point.

:: 03:53

Exactly. Exactly. So looking back at, you know, that was in 2009. In 2011, I was eventually laid off from Bank of America. And looking back, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Boy, it's funny that way that works,

:: 04:07

it's funny that way that works, right?

:: 04:08

Exactly. Exactly. I would have probably stayed there, paid well, solid bonuses. But I certainly did not love what I was doing. What I did love and had passion about was this kind of very nascent ticket business I had on the side. That said, I found a job at LinkedIn within about 30 days. And I've always been enamored with the technology space. I visit a lot of those companies in Silicon Valley during my time in finance. And it seemed like they had a great life. Everybody's riding around on a bicycle, free food. You're saying it's not quite the Bank of America experience.

:: 04:44

saying it's not quite the Bank of America experience.

:: 04:47

That's correct. That's correct. Certainly not the financial crisis that was going out there.

:: 04:51

was going out there.

:: 04:53

So big pivot.

:: 04:54

pivot.

:: 04:55

Yeah. Yeah. I learned a ton about selling enterprise software. I learned a ton about leadership, culture, how to care about your people and employees. what's important to not just your your customer base but also your employee base and so i learned so much you're just absorbing at that point exactly and they just ipoed a month before i arrived there so still early stages still early enough to really learn jeff wiener the ceo at the time learned a tremendous amount very accessible and was a tremendous tremendous leader that said i i still i was building this on the side i wanted to join a pre -ipo company

:: 05:14

absorbing at

:: 05:16

and they just ipoed a month before i arrived there so still early stages still early enough to really learn jeff wiener the ceo at the time learned a tremendous amount very accessible and was a tremendous tremendous leader that said i i still i was building this on the side i wanted to join a pre -ipo company And so I went to a company called Box. But the reality was I had this thing that was pulling at me all the time and it was a typical business.

:: 05:48

You're operating what became dynamic pricing partners the whole time while all this other quote unquote real job is happening.

:: 05:53

all this

:: 05:55

unquote real job is happening.

:: 05:59

That's correct. And I was so passionate about that dynamic pricing partners business and not really passionate about cloud storage and software. Hard to imagine.

:: 06:08

to imagine.

:: 06:10

Exactly. So I made a decision with my wife to leave Box the day my stock vested. I remember vividly walking in giving notice in that August of 2014. And that's when things really took off. You're able to really take that time.

:: 06:25

able to really take that time. So you've got the stock vests. It gives you some financial bulwark when you leave somewhat.

:: 06:26

able to

:: 06:34

you leave somewhat. of it yeah yeah because it's all potential money still at that point but it does give you okay no more side hustle i really want to dive deeply into this that's correct and and so i i realized the value at that point of being able to focus a hundred percent of my time on the ticket this and learning and you know being a sponge for everything that had to do with ticket pricing data insights

:: 06:45

correct and and so i i realized the value at that point of being able to focus a hundred percent of my time on the ticket this and learning and you know being a sponge for everything that had to do with ticket pricing data insights And it was it was an amazing time. I did not hire anybody for three years. I did have, you know, my younger brother helped a little bit on the side every now and then. My wife certainly helped, but she's an attorney, so couldn't devote a lot of time. Oh, boy. But the reality was it was really me for three years. May 15th of 2017. hired my first employee uh who's still with us and i remember that day vividly because it's like turning into a real business at that point you're like i have an employee exactly and i didn't you know that's also for for any business owner that's out there like hiring that first person is so challenging because you're this baby this thing that you built helped develop and grow you're now sharing with somebody else to ultimately help grow that business

:: 07:31

like turning into a real business at that point you're like i have an employee exactly and i didn't

:: 07:35

and i didn't you know that's also for for any business owner that's out there like hiring that first person is so challenging because you're this baby this thing that you built helped develop and grow you're now sharing with somebody else to ultimately help grow that business Well, that was a light bulb that turned on for me because once I saw how well Joe can do so many things and many things that I can't do well, I realized the value of scaling and bringing people aboard. And so from that point forward, quickly hired, we were able to scale relatively quickly to where in 2021, Elevate acquired us. We were doing about $30 million in revenue and have grown that to, you know, well over, you know, close to $300 million in the last three and a half years. Let's talk about that acquisition for a minute.

:: 08:27

the last three and a half years. Let's talk about that acquisition for a minute. Because to your point, everybody says one of those old saws is, you know, it's business, it's not personal. Sure. But when the business is yours and you've created it, like to your point, it's hard to hire even the first person because this is your baby. Right.

:: 08:47

Is that moment, I mean, it's obviously exciting. when another business sees the value that you've created and wants to acquire it. But what was that transition like for you going from being this thing that you've created to now part of, I mean, Elevate, which is clearly an exciting company to partner with, but it's a different animal than it is when you're doing the startup thing.

:: 09:10

Yeah. Let me take a step back, back to 2019.

:: 09:14

We're going back and forth. It's a good thing we've got a time machine on this podcast.

:: 09:20

You know, we certainly had, I had a desire to grow much more rapidly than I think we were able to grow. Got it, yeah. Everything was funded with personal capital at that point. We had a very small credit line, but everything was funded with personal capital. And so we looked at various different acquisition options and talked to a few different companies. I actually signed an LOI with a company. They sent me an employment agreement. And when they sent me that in 2019, I said, you know what, I'm just I'm not ready. I'm not ready to work for somebody else. And I still vividly remember, again, New York City, everything settles, you know, centers back around here, walking down Sixth Avenue, calling my wife to my attorney and saying, hey, just get me out of this. I'm not ready. The way they handled it and the people all around them was just tremendous. And from that. that situation I learned a ton because I went through another acquisition process with a different company that we weren't fully agreed to.

:: 10:17

weren't fully agreed to. But when I told them I was going to a different organization with Elevate, they did not handle it so well. Tells you a lot. Exactly. That's resonated with me to this day. Sure. One, how to treat people in business because everybody's going to come back around.

:: 10:25

you a lot.

:: 10:33

And this is just not that big an industry. Let's call it what it is, man. I mean, it seems big. There's a lot of money flying around and a lot of companies doing a lot of interesting things. But man, it's boy, you end up tripping over the same people over and over and over again.

:: 10:45

You're 100 % right. And I think that for everybody out there, that's so important to remember when you're talking to anybody. You're probably going to be around them and maybe at the same company down the road. So Elevate, I'd met Al previously. In fact, I talked to two people that worked with Al, Sean Kundu and Moon Javid in 2018. And they said a bunch of things. You're too small. You don't have any contracts. And I forget the third thing that they told me. Clearly irrelevant.

:: 11:13

irrelevant.

:: 11:14

Yeah, exactly. 21, I said, hey, do you guys remember this? But the reality was meeting Al and meeting the rest of the team from day one, I knew that it was going to be an amazing. You could feel it. The vibes were on. Yes, correct. And so we've grown together. We've grown up together really since 2021. Elevate was founded in 2018. They were a much larger company. at the point they acquired DPP. But still, we've now grown up together these last three and a half, four years, and it's really been a tremendous ride. I know maybe an acquisition might not be for everybody, but for me, for our team, I think it's opened up so many new doors, so many new opportunities, and the executive guidance that I can get into a room and talk to Al or Flabel Hampson, our president, or many other people. has just been game -changing, I think, for the business.

:: 12:07

So let's talk about your current role at all of it, because it just changed not too long ago. Congratulations, by the way. So can you give us a quick sense of your day -to -day? What's your area of responsibility?

:: 12:09

of it, because it just

:: 12:19

Yeah, so I oversee our entire college business. So anything that touches college across Elevate, I oversee. I still oversee the legacy business that I founded, DPP, which is now Elevate Marketplace. And that business continues to grow. I'm still very excited about that to this day. But our broader college business is at a unique time because everything going on in the space. right now. So I oversee whether it's property sales across the college space, creative, partnership sales, search, which are our new talent and search vertical, which we brought in via Kyle Bowlsby and Bowlsby Sports Advisors, which has been tremendous for us. Our insights vertical as well. So I spend the day talking to athletic directors, deputy ADs across the space. working on ways that we can help them maximize the value of their assets and generate more revenue from what they have now, but also help them think about the future and where they can create new opportunities for their athletic departments.

:: 13:28

So one of the big pieces associated with this, and it's clearly been in the news quite a bit, is the college investment initiative. Sure. So let's dive into that a little bit because this is a unique look at how a company can support college athletics that intertwines some unique aspects of it too. So let's talk about the college investment initiative. Can you give a sense of what it is and a little bit of its origin story? How did the initiative come into being?

:: 14:01

Yeah. So again, these are amazing things that we get to do as part of a broader and larger company like Elevate where we're brainstorming ways that we can impact our partners in the industry in a very big way all the time. I can tell you, Dave, there's hundreds of ideas that never come to fruition. But one of them... 99 of which usually come from me.

:: 14:23

99 of which usually come from me.

:: 14:25

No, certainly from me. We were talking in our executive meetings about ways that we can continue to grow the revenues for our partners in the college space. And one of the things that we always came back to was the need for capital. when we think about traditional capital you look at banks you look at bond offerings and those are the the two main sources for most colleges and universities for the past 100 plus years private investments have not been a major source of capital for many of these colleges and universities and the private investments that have been talked about mainly in the forms of equity i think are very challenging for many public and even private institutions to wrap their heads around. And I also think taking an equity stake in an organization or an athletic department that's part of a publicly funded university, I think is challenging to actually accomplish. And then how does the liquidity event happen down the road? So while we have partnered with Texas Permanent and Velocity Capital, who is a private equity group, but also has private credit abilities, we're looking for more debt -like returns. But really, in ways that we can help drive incremental revenue for schools other groups have announced you know we're going to invest in college athletics they don't have an operating partner behind what they're doing they're just looking for return where elevate ideally can come in we can provide capital but we can also help you operate and maximize the return on that investment so whether that's in the form of a stadium renovation whether that's in the form of a new stadium, whether that's in the form of just a new club space. Ideally, we can help you operate and maximize the value of that asset. And Elevate is really a team of operators. Frankly, I'm one of the few that has never been on the college, university or professional sports team side. I've always been on the technology and data side of the business, but we have a whole team of operators that knows areas and ways that we can look. and uncover unique assets and unique ways to drive incremental revenue. So our main focus is how we can help put the school in a better position in 10 years than they are today. And I think many of the traditional forms that are looking at providing capital to schools aren't exactly looking at it in that mindset.

:: 16:49

Let's talk about that distinction between private equity. And private credit, because I'm like a lot of people, I think you hear, I mean, there's so much about how private equity is going to be getting into college sports and this is what's going to happen. This is the future. And it's really hard to unravel that on this side of the table from the standpoint of many of the things that you just talked about, like what is the liquidity event? How, I mean, private equity is like five years and we want to see some sort of exit from this where we've been making our money. And that's hard to see with College sports, particularly those for public universities. So can you just provide a little bit inside of that private equity versus private credit and what that means for a university partner?

:: 17:32

what that

:: 17:34

Yeah. The way we've seen it pitched, private equity certainly would mean you're taking a large sum of upfront capital in return, providing a portion of your operating revenues in perpetuity until there was some sort of exit. So if you're doing $100 million a year and maybe your operating income is probably very low, right? Because we've seen most colleges and universities aren't making a lot of money. Not a bunch. Your equity value might be somewhat high based on the brand and all the assets you can put into this bucket. The reality is maybe you sell 10 % of that. So in three to five years when a private equity group wants to get out of that investment, resell that 10 % likely to another private equity group. I think that's very challenging to do with a public institution, even some of the private institutions, the way they're set up and the way their corporate structures are set up. And also, depending on how much control you can have, many of these colleges and universities have not been run like a business ever. No, this is a new era. That's correct. And you've seen some of the recent athletic director hires are people from outside the industry. People, you know, coming from professional sports backgrounds.

:: 18:57

You're seeing chief revenue officers being a key role that's being hired quite a bit for sure. Trying to change the approach.

:: 19:03

That's correct. That's correct. So private credit, you know, now that we understand the equity side, private credit is really providing upfront capital that will ultimately be paid back. Ideally with us, it's going to be, you know, via a portion of revenue streams. But that's for a defined period of time. And so let's just say that's 10 years. Well, at 10 years, Elevate owns nothing. XYZ School owns everything. And hopefully they're in a better situation than they were 10 years before. And that's, I think, the difference. Because they've been able to monetize the investment that Elevate helped them make to produce revenue that's going to help them pay back the credit.

:: 19:38

they've been able to monetize the investment that Elevate helped them make to produce revenue that's going to help them pay back the credit. vehicle that they've used.

:: 19:50

That's exactly right. Ideally, whatever we're investing in alongside of the school will help them create incremental revenue that will offset the payback and ultimately drive incremental revenue on a long -term basis.

:: 20:03

And it's better than just putting the whole thing on their credit cards.

:: 20:06

Correct. But they're going to be better rate than that.

:: 20:06

But they're going to be better rate than that. But so when you see a school, so give us, what's the rubric here from as you see it? Because I'm assuming like, When you announce that you have a half billion dollar fund available, there's a lot of schools that are going to be like, the hand gets shot up and it's like leaning forward, they pick up the phone and it's like, I like money, that kind of thing. So what kind of attributes are you and Elevate looking for in university and college athletic departments that are coming to you and saying, so how do we make this happen? So what starts to look like the kind of partnerships you want to enter into?

:: 20:47

Yeah, I mean, I think we're very open. So we want to, again, help the school be in a much better situation down the road than they are in today. So I think that's table stakes number one. If they're not anticipating or if they're not looking for capital that will put them in a better position down the road than they are today, or it's going to hurt them down the road, it's probably not something that we want to help them with because we want to see them succeed on a long -term basis. So that's number one. Number two, I think, would be a school that is looking to potentially modernize their facilities. There were over two billion dollars of completed projects last year just in football. Another three and a half billion, I believe, announced just in college. Oh,

:: 21:32

no, it's an arms race for facilities and stadiums and locker rooms and things.

:: 21:33

facilities and stadiums and locker rooms and things. Exactly. And it's even more so on the revenue generating side. So locker rooms, yes. But I think schools are focusing less on the recruiting aspect. Now that players can be paid with the rev share by schools and more so even on premium spaces, areas that they can build a club in, things along those lines. And we're seeing significant growth in the need for those premium areas. And that's where we would want to come into a school that has that need. The other area is if a school is already committed to a project, maybe they need some sort of. you know maybe they've raised 50 million but they need 60 so that last 10 million we can come in and help them artist money first money in last money in that's that's that's correct yeah we could be there to support them but we're very open so there's not a perfect you know school by any any means there's a school that's you know open and willing to find new ways to grow that might not have access to the current you know capital you know

:: 22:19

money first money in last money in that's

:: 22:22

that's that's correct yeah we could be there to support them but we're very open so there's not a perfect you know school by any any means there's a school that's you know open and willing to find new ways to grow that might not have access to the current you know capital you know I guess that's kind of one of the things that's advantageous to you at this point,

:: 22:40

guess that's kind of one of the things that's advantageous to you at this point, too. As we talked about, there are sort of a new type of athletic administrator coming into universities that may be more receptive to different ways to fund that has been in the case in the past. Have you started to see or have you started to generate relationships with universities about how the fund is deployed? Are there examples that can provide useful context?

:: 23:07

Yeah, so the fund has been deployed. Unfortunately, right now we aren't able to name those schools. Sure you can, but nobody's really listening anyway. Okay,

:: 23:14

really listening anyway.

:: 23:15

so you've had some success.

:: 23:17

you've had some success. Yes, we've had some success and we'll continue to.

:: 23:19

we've had some success and we'll continue to. And I do believe we'll be able to announce some, if not all of those partners here in the future. That said, we continue to have amazing conversations with... both athletic directors in schools that we know, and many that we haven't had major relationships with in the past that want to learn more, that want to understand, to your point, going back to the equity versus credit side of things. What does it mean? Exactly. I guess we just need to send them this podcast is what we need to do.

:: 23:42

does it mean? Exactly. I guess we just need to send them this podcast is what we need to do.

:: 23:47

Perfect. Sum it up. Yeah, exactly.

:: 23:48

Sum it up.

:: 23:52

Exactly. So it's been great from that perspective and also to share kind of. ways that we can help them grow their overall revenue base.

:: 24:02

The fund is obviously a big deal, right? And like I said, at the top of the discussion regarding it, it's getting a lot of publicity and a lot of attention being paid to it. I mean, even today, a half a billion dollars still gets attention. But it's clearly only one part of the strategy for college. Are there other things that you're looking at right now that get you excited in similar ways that the fund might? What else? What else is kind of burning a hole in your desk as you look at college and what can only be described as probably the most dynamic place in sports business right now?

:: 24:33

Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. I think when you think about all of the changes that we've experienced in the last five years, it has truly been tremendous to see, I think, the mindset change from athletic directors that might not have been as focused on revenue in the past. are more focused on revenue than ever before yeah so whether that's trying unique ways to bundle a premium experience where whether it's trying to capture more revenue from fans outside the stadium i think that's the biggest opportunity is outside the stadium if you look at all the mixed east developments that are going up around the in the pro space yeah been to the battery in atlanta uh if you've been to some of these other the other areas you know green bay they're they're amazing and if you look at you know what they're trying to do at iowa state and in some other areas i think that that dollar that fans are spending before the event and then after is is usually missed out on by many of of these athletic departments and if we can help them capture more of that there's a major opportunity i mean frankly even parking i think parking is one of the most underpriced assets in all

:: 25:10

you look

:: 25:26

in some other areas i think that that dollar that fans are spending before the event and then after is is usually missed out on by many of of these athletic departments and if we can help them capture more of that there's a major opportunity i mean frankly even parking i think parking is one of the most underpriced assets in all athletics. And we're working daily with partners on pricing and ways to maximize revenue from parking assets that they might only own from the university just on those six, seven home games a year. But there's such an opportunity to generate a couple million dollars more, which is very meaningful in this time of chaos.

:: 26:10

Yeah. I mean, I'm old enough to remember when stadiums were built with these enormous parking lots around them. They were the ashtray stadiums of the 70s and 80s. And the change in understanding about stadium as a hub around which an event happens, but still have that ability to connect with fans far beyond just the game itself. It's a total sea change in thinking that's been taking place. And we've had a couple of great conversations on the podcast with. Like Jason, Justin Papadakis of the USL. Their strategy is all around development. Mark McCullers is another one we've talked to. And it's really all about creating these real estate properties around which a stadium just happens to be versus the stadium itself.

:: 26:56

Yeah. I mean, if you look at all of the trends that we're seeing, our fans attending less events, but they're spending more money when they're actually attending an event. So I think that tells me two things. Number one. there might not be enough in that area to get them to come out for every game number one and number two how can we build more premium and so let's not let's tackle both right let's let's build that mixed use development space if we have the real estate available let's get more people here even if they're a casual fan Again, you cannot sell out an event without casual fans and a casual fan is, is, is not a diehard fan. That's going to pay attention to every second of the game, but they're going to be there for the experience. So if we can get more casual fans to the event, and if that's mixed use space, if that's better premium spaces, so they can, you know, watch a TV of another game, why that game's going on, whatever it is. I think that's how we're going to be able to win in the future because we're battling people's time right now. Very challenging. Like I think the. One of the biggest challenges in college sports are really in broader sports in general are midweek games. I think with everybody right now, you know, if you have kids, it's very difficult to go to a midweek event. And so I think because of that, fans are saying, you know what, I'm going to put all my eggs on the weekend events and I'm going to go to those, but I'm going to spend a lot more on those because I'm skipping these weekend or midweek games. And so I think we can do more to get fans there around the event. before, after, and keep them there, we're going to be able to solve some of those more challenging game problems.

:: 28:33

Jonathan, as we get ready to wrap up, I want to circle back to something you mentioned earlier, which is that one of the benefits of being at Elevate is that you have this opportunity to sit down in a room and ideate and brainstorm and just throw ideas off the wall to see what can be next. For college sports. So as somebody who's inside that circle, as someone who's thinking about college sports, investment, producing returns on a regular basis, like central to what you do, I'm wondering what advice you have for universities that are currently wrestling with this idea of new revenue and this new world of college sports and all the financial implications that go along with that.

:: 29:09

are currently wrestling with this idea of new revenue and this new world of college sports and all the financial implications that go along with that. What should they be thinking about in your minds, whether it relates to Elevate or not?

:: 29:24

Yeah, I firmly believe maximizing the value of your assets starts when you own all of your assets. And I believe that you'll start to see more universities taking rights back in -house, their own teams, building self -sustainable businesses to operate those. those revenue streams and finding new ways to extract revenue. It's the same thing I tell young professionals in this business. No one's going to look out more for you than you. And so you always have to advocate for yourself. And I believe schools will be able to advocate more for their own revenue streams than when they have a third party involved that's managing those revenue streams for them. So I think you're going to see that. And that's going to be a big trend that's going to happen in the next five to 10 years. I think you're going to see a lot of schools that might. might be either at the bottom of the power four or outside the power four looking in, trying to position themselves for the next wave of realignment. And is there a super conference? I don't know the answer to that, but I do think there's going to be more realignment and you're going to see schools that are going to slip in that you weren't anticipating because they're doing the legwork now to be prepared for that. I think you're going to have some in the power four that might slip out because they're not doing the legwork and they're not being prepared now. you know, for what the future will hold. I think that's important. And then lastly, finding people that you can trust both inside and outside the university, whether that's, you know, people on your board of trustees, whether that's people on your, you know, advisory committee, whatever you may have to provide advice in areas that you don't know and admitting that, hey, you know what, I'm not an expert in this area, but I need some advice, you know, before you even hire Elevate, you know, work with those people that are are there to provide help and it's typically their alma mater and can really help drive unique ways and kind of have the same thing that we do at Elevate which is sitting in that room brainstorming about ways that we can grow together and find new ways to innovate and I think a lot of them have those abilities on campus I've seen some of these board of trustees I've met many of them they're all there like they're willing to give the advice I think they just you know need to be asked for you know to share that

:: 31:42

With Jonathan Marks, he's the chief business officer for college and global marketplace at Elevate. Jonathan, really appreciate the time. I always learn a lot from these discussions, but this one, given where we are in this particular moment in time, very, very elucidating.

:: 31:58

I'll put it that way. And I'd like to let you go now, but I got to put you in the lightning round. Yeah. Oh, okay. Sure. That sounds very like very matter of fact. You don't know what's about to happen. All right. Look, he's eager. All right, here we go. We're going to jump right into it then. Okay. You were born in Cleveland. Does that make you a Browns fan? And if so, how is that still the case?

:: 32:18

Nope. I was a Steelers fan. The only one in my family. So lucked out. Black sheep. That's right. Yeah. Those must have been. How did he come to the Steelers then? You just wanted to be like the different kid? I believe so. Yeah. It was probably four or five. Yeah. I still don't know. Four or five?

:: 32:24

Yeah.

:: 32:31

know. Four or five?

:: 32:32

Yeah. Yeah.

:: 32:33

All right. Well, at one point you were a five foot, eight inch linebacker for the big red machine at Cornell. What was the greatest play you made in your time at Ithaca?

:: 32:43

at Ithaca? I think I made one tackle on the scout team during my career there after getting pancaked many times by Kevin Booth, who won a couple of Super Bowls in the NFL. So are you the original Rudy?

:: 32:56

you the original Rudy? You're Rudy -esque.

:: 32:58

Rudy -esque. Yes. Much slower though. Much slower.

:: 33:01

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Slower than no great payoff at the end of that particular movie. Okay. None of that. All right. You attended, this was news to me. This is exciting. You attended the Culinary Institute of America for a while. So, so question, what are you going to cook to impress me?

:: 33:22

I will cook up a credit card to DoorDash. And yeah, you know, with three kids, I do not have a lot of time to cook anymore and I'm on the road so much, but it would probably be, I'd probably be grilling something or yes, ordering, ordering food. All right. All right.

:: 33:38

All right. All right. So they cook up a credit card for donors. It's a good one. All right. Last one. You are a member of the SBJ's 40 under 40 class of 2024. So congratulations on that. Serious question. What previous winner of the award would you most like to emulate?

:: 33:58

I guess I should know more about the history of the award.

:: 34:01

They didn't get a list, huh?

:: 34:03

You can make one. Somebody I've always admired in sports would be Mark Cuban. I don't know if he won the award, but I love his leadership style, his philosophy, his energy. Another one would be Steve Ballmer, who won the award either, but just great, great people. Still good people to emulate in it and bringing a lot of energy to the table. Jonathan Marks,

:: 34:04

can make one. Somebody

:: 34:20

Still good people to emulate in it and bringing a lot of energy to the table. Jonathan Marks, many thanks for the time, man. Thank you so much, Dave. Appreciate it.